Posted by SuzieQ/CA on 2/6/13 8:57pm
Msg #454396

Need help! Signing in a few minutes.

Hi everyone. I'm looking over the docs for a signing in a few minutes. I came across a very strange wording. Of course I'll have to attach a loose certificate, but which one? Jurat or acknowledgement? Wording is follows:

"I hereby certify that on this ____ day of ___, ___, before me, the undersigned, a Notary Public for the jurisdiction aforesaid, personally appeared the within name, _______, personally know by me or proved to me by the production of a driver's license as identification to be the person whose name is subscribed to the within instrument and, being before me duly swon, acknowledged the foregoing to be his/her free act, and in my presence signed and sealed same."

What is this??? BTW, this is a Bank of America loan.

Thanks! Would appreciate some quick input.

Reply by JAM/CA on 2/6/13 9:00pm
Msg #454398

They want a Jurat and an Acknowledgment. Attach both.

Reply by SuzieQ/CA on 2/6/13 9:01pm
Msg #454401

Seriously?

Reply by JAM/CA on 2/6/13 9:04pm
Msg #454402

Absolutely. I have done these many times. Texas, I believe is one of the States
that have both quite frequently. Why would you consider this a problem?

Reply by SuzieQ/CA on 2/6/13 9:05pm
Msg #454405

Ok. Thanks. Just never done it that way before. But again, I'm kinda new. Really appreciate it.

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/6/13 9:08pm
Msg #454408

Just be sure to swear them in! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/6/13 9:06pm
Msg #454406

Yeah, it's a pain, but I agree with JAM/CA - or ask client. n/m

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/6/13 9:25pm
Msg #454415

Yes do Both Ack and Jurat I have them often. n/m

Reply by Bear900/CA on 2/6/13 10:09pm
Msg #454429

Depends...?

I would also consider the document. Sig/Name, Occupancy, etc, with 'subscribed and sworn' as part of wording I would use a Jurat. DOT an acknowledgement. Never had it happen though.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/6/13 10:29pm
Msg #454432

Just be sure you don't fill out THAT wording

By CA standards, there's a whole heck of a lot wrong with that. If it were me, I'd call the requesting party and ask them what they wanted. That's what we're supposed to do, after all, since we're not allowed to choose.

Of course, I'd line through that and then notate the reason for the attachment.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/6/13 10:57pm
Msg #454437

Do both

Well - in a way, we are not choosing because we're submitting both (an ack and jurat), and letting them "choose" either to keep both or jettison one. And, yes, whenever I see that wording, I do both an ack AND a jurat (loose leaf, with my stamp: "CA compliant certificate(s) attached" on the original doc).

It would best, of course, to ask the hiring party what it wants and would be nice to get an informed answer, but in my 12 years of experience, they don't have the faintest idea what you're asking, why you're asking and what the difference is between and ack and jurat; therefore, just supply both or you'll never hear the end of it. Just MHO!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/6/13 11:29pm
Msg #454448

Re: Do both

I understand why some notaries do both... but I'm hesitant to do that because that "extra one" could end up somewhere else. Yes, I realize that some notaries will add optional information identifying the document it's attached to in order to help prevent that, but many others don't.

While I don't think there's anything that specifically prevents us from issuing two certificates on the same document, I'm not entirely sure it's something we should be doing, either. I've never done it, myself. It's actually something that's been nagging at me for some time and I think something I'm going to ask the Secretary of State about.

I mean, by doing this, we are performing multiple notarial acts for the same signature on the same document It just seems.... off. I realize you're doing it to be helpful to people who are clueless as to what they want, but I think it's a potential security issue.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 2/6/13 11:48pm
Msg #454454

This is timely for me because

I just attached CA Jurats to six Affidavits that only missed the wording “proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence..”

But I have a Marital Status Affidavit wherein the paragraph above their signature says, “I swear under oath..”, again missing the rest of the CA required wording. However the Notary wording has “This instrument was acknowledged to me on…” no additional wording.

Jurat? Acknowledgment? Both? In case you're wondering I attached a Jurat, for now!

I will call the title company in the morning but am interested in experienced minds here. I can later post what they said.

Good information here so far and I appreciate it.

Reply by SuzieQ/CA on 2/7/13 12:04am
Msg #454456

Re: Do both

Thanks everyone for all your great advice. I did as many of you suggested. I crossed out their wording and wrote "CA compliant certificate(s) attached" since I don't have a stamp and attached both a jurat and acknowledgement. Hope this will be ok. Fingers crossed they don't get kicked back.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/7/13 12:23am
Msg #454459

Re: Do both

I wouldn't use the () around the "s". I want it to be unambiguous that there are two certificates attached, which kind of addresses Marian's issue. In fact, in those types of situations, whenever possible, I use my jurat stamp, then write in "See attached certificate of Acknowledgment" and I make sure to fill in all the detailed "optional" info that my personal loose certificates have. I don't want there to be any question that the ack belongs to that document.

As for doing both, I don't really see the problem with it, at least here in CA. After all, they each do something slightly different and I've never read anything that says a client can't have both issues addressed by having one of each.

Reply by leeinla on 2/7/13 1:52am
Msg #454474

Re: Do both

,"being before me duly swon",

I 99% sure they want a jurat. Since you have to give an oath, the other wording is just more legal jargon. You can attach an acknowledgment with a post it that says something like if needed I attached an acknowledgement, in not needed please shred document.

Are there any attorneys that can interpret this, this would be helpful.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 2/7/13 12:05pm
Msg #454540

Re: Do both

Based on some helpful advice here I also attached an acknowledgement.

Before I shipped, I asked title and they said that should be fine. I always reference the exact document name and date as well as page and item number in my journal in case anyone gets ideas.

What kills me is when they sometimes ask to include an "extra" acknowledgement "just in case". That tells me some notaries are actually doing this.