Posted by leeinla on 2/18/13 6:49pm
Msg #456427

Need help with ID and Passport_ CA

I just spoke with the borrower and he said that his DL expired yesterday. He said it was issued on 2-22-07. I believe that is a No. He has a passport that expired last year but passport our good for 10 yrs. Quicken loans said it should be o.k. What should I do?

Reply by Cam/CA on 2/18/13 6:57pm
Msg #456428

Re: from the handbook page 8

A. Paper Identification Documents – Identity of the signer can be established by the notary
public’s reasonable reliance on the presentation of any one of the following documents, if the
identification document is current or has been issued within five years (Civil Code section
1185(b)(3) & (4)):
Key words ... issued within 5 years.

Reply by janelle on 2/19/13 2:17am
Msg #456468

Re: here are a couple of newer forms of ID

An employee identification card issued by an agency or office of the State of California,
or an agency or office of a city, county, or city and county in California

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/18/13 7:01pm
Msg #456429

"DL expired yesterday. He said it was issued on 2-22-07"

No can do. Issue date is too far back.


"He has a passport that expired last year."

Again, no can do... there is no provision for expired passports. It must be valid.


"Quicken loans said it should be o.k."

Quicken Loans isn't the CA Secretary of State. Don't listen to them.



"What should I do?"

Are credible witnesses an option? Remember, it's not the notary that decides is the person's situation is "difficult or impossible" to obtain another form of ID... it's the witnesses who are swearing to the facts under oath.

Reply by leeinla on 2/18/13 7:15pm
Msg #456435

Thanks everyone. Kudos, to Marian for your detailed answer. I knew the id was no good. I don't know why people wait till the last minute to take care of these things. I talked to the borrower and I told him his i.d will not work and I am following state law. His rate lock will expire tomorrow. I am going to document this in my journal. This is the first time this has happened to me . Never had an issue with i.d's with a young person like that before. It is usually elderly people. You never know what can happen in this business. I am a stickler to state law because I do not want to get in trouble.

Reply by leeinla on 2/18/13 7:16pm
Msg #456436

Re: He said no to credible witnesses. n/m

Reply by ananotary on 2/18/13 7:44pm
Msg #456441

"Re: He said no to credible witnesses" This falls under the

category of "Not your problem". Report and move on.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/18/13 7:54pm
Msg #456445

Re: He said no to credible witnesses.

It may be too late now... but as I understand it, some of the DMV offices are issuing the temporary paper IDs that have all of the required elements for notarization. If the guy can park himself there tomorrow morning at one of those, I suppose it could be possible???

I haven't seen one myself yet, but I've seen several notaries report seeing them. Janet, I think, was one?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/19/13 1:58am
Msg #456466

Correct. It was a very pleasant surprise. n/m

Reply by janelle on 2/19/13 2:21am
Msg #456469

Re: He said no to credible witnesses.

Do they include a photgraph and all the elements required for ID?

Reply by Yoli/CA on 2/19/13 11:46am
Msg #456508

Re: He said no to credible witnesses.

Yes, they do include all the elements required, including photo. It was a very pleasant surprise when I saw one for GNW a few months ago.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 2/18/13 7:28pm
Msg #456439

"Quicken loans said it should be o.k" ...

A supervisor on the Quicken hot-line once told me, when I was having a problem with a borrower's ID, that I "was to notarize what ever name she told me was her's" . Actually, the woman yelled that statement at me over the phone. Needless to say, after that statement, they lost all credibility with me. As Marian says, you have to be true to the CA-SOS & the CA handbook.

Reply by leeinla on 2/18/13 8:00pm
Msg #456446

Re: "Quicken loans said it should be o.k" ...

I do like Title Source for their workflow. I think that they don't know the laws at various states or maybe they don't care. My contract with them states that I have to follow the laws of my state (CA). State law always supersedes the need of the lender to me anyway. Also, when I notarize docs today, I don't know what will happen three of five years from now. The docs could be audited and if something is wrong I could be on the hook.

Reply by pdl/cali on 2/18/13 8:07pm
Msg #456450

Re: "Quicken loans said it should be o.k" ...

This has happened to me , it was at BofA. The borrower could not produce ID, so we went with 2 credible witnesses. All was fine. A bit of waiting time , yet we got the loan signed.

Reply by CJ on 2/19/13 12:09am
Msg #456463

Re: "Quicken loans said it should be o.k" ...

Quicken loans did not take the notary test: I believe the penalty for notarizing without "satisfactory evidence" is: Criminal, civil, and administrative penalties, plus $10,000. You will be signing your acknowledgement under "penalty of perjury". Anyone in cahoots with you on this, like the borrower or Quicken, I think that's a conspiracy to commit a felony, which is a misdemeanor. Identifying the borrower is the MOST IMPORTANT part of your job. I'm glad you found out about it before you go, so that you are prepared for the onslaught of begging, tears, and yelling.

And I think if you DO notarize something without properly identifying them, then technically, the notarization is no good, which means all the documents are worthless, and the loan is not secured by the Deed of Trust.

JMHO

Reply by 101livescan on 2/19/13 8:35am
Msg #456475

Re: "Quicken loans said it should be o.k" ...

AMEN, SISTER. That was definitely on the test last week! They mean business.

Reply by Julie/MI on 2/19/13 8:59am
Msg #456482

Another imbecilic disservice to CA citizenry...

If I was in the shoes of the borrower, I would sue the CA SOS....how does a day old expired license suddenly make the person not himself?

Kinda like XYZ that says after your certification is expired in 2 years, you are suddenly "not certified."

What the heck is in mindset of the legislative bodies of that state?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/19/13 9:11am
Msg #456488

An argument against expired ID

One argument against accepting expired ID is the person who it belongs to might have thrown it away without destroying it. It could have been picked out of the trash by an imposter, or even a family member. Maybe the proper owner even decided to give it to a friend or relative who can't get their own ID for some reason (people do strange things). Depending on how much identifying information is on the ID and how good the picture is, a person accepting the ID may notice it is being used by an imposter, but maybe not.

I don't think this argument is prove positive that one should never accept expired ID, but it certainly is a reason why current ID is better.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/19/13 12:54pm
Msg #456517

Great post (as usual) VT! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/20/13 1:34am
Msg #456614

Re: An argument against expired ID

Good point. Plus, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Wherever that happens to be might seem arbitrary - and perhaps it is - but if there weren't sufficient reasons, why would the IDs have an expiration date at all? Some of them might have to do with driving issues, but what about ID Cards issued by the state? (Ours here are good for 10 years, I believe.)

And it's not like people don't know their IDs expire. We get notified by mail from the DMV here and told whether or not the renewal can be done online or if a personal visit requiring a written test or vision test or new photo will be required.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/19/13 12:53pm
Msg #456516

A miss is as good as a mile

Would you say the same thing if the DL had expired years ago? The fact that a DL expired yesterday or 30 years ago does not "make the person not himself." That's not the point. Many lenders and state legislatures require "valid" ID.

Anyway, no point in suing the CA SOS or any SOS. They don't make the law. As fas as what is in the mindset of the CA legislative body - or that of any state - who knows? Good question.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/19/13 2:15pm
Msg #456535

CA has more leeway than MI does

MI requires "current" ID, w/out regard to when it was issued - it's not a conditional statute.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/19/13 4:56pm
Msg #456563

Same here ReneeK IL has NO leeway. Current or no can do n/m

Reply by dickb/wi on 2/19/13 5:46pm
Msg #456565

Re: CA has more leeway than MI does

same in wi renee.....we can use a creditable witness but it must be a person..."personaly known by the affiant and the notary".....that is a pretty hard one to find.....in 52 years as a notary i have never been able to do that.....

Reply by KarenVentura on 6/24/13 10:39am
Msg #474501

Lender wants two forms of ID. He has a current valid Driver's License with photo and signature. He also has an expired Passport that the photo and signature match. Is this OK? Since as a Notary only one has to be valid?
Karen