Posted by CarolF/NC on 2/11/13 9:50pm
Msg #455367

Question on fees by state

If we are all working for the same companies, but in different states, and being paid drastically different fees based on our state or geographical area, are these companies somehow making less in some states or are they pocketing more in the states where they pay cheaply?

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/11/13 10:04pm
Msg #455370

I'd submit that the bulk of our work with loan signings comes under our signing agent hat, with the notary aspect limited to the handful of docs requiring notarized signatures.

Hence, I wouldn't think state fee differences would make that much of a difference.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/11/13 10:07pm
Msg #455371

So are you saying that if the same companies pay 100 to 150

in Cali, NY etc and only 85 to 100 in NC they are pocketing more?

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/11/13 10:28pm
Msg #455380

Re: So are you saying that if the same companies pay 100 to 150

By and large, I'd say that a lender in California whose title company is in Texas doesn't spend much time discriminating between state fees. They know what they are willing to pay to get the signing completed, regardless of the state where it is occurring.

Conversely, you have to know what you need to be profitable. Don't ask them what they pay, tell them what you charge

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/11/13 10:32pm
Msg #455381

I can tell them what I charge all day and

Not get the jobs. Point is its not difficult to see that people in some states are being paid more by the same company than in other states.

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/11/13 11:07pm
Msg #455384

Have you considered...

that you may be getting undercut by your area competitors?

One of the oldest axioms on NotRot is "Stick to your guns".

There are numerous companies out there with many orders to fill in your area, and who want to use quality NSAs for which they will pay fair fees; sign up with all the good ones on Signing Central and ensure you have a killer profile and upgraded memberships on the Big 3 sites.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/11/13 11:15pm
Msg #455386

We know we are getting undercut and by whom...

and it's more than a few people

Reply by SharonMN on 2/12/13 3:01pm
Msg #455506

Re: Have you considered...

I'd guess the SS gets the same amount regardless of the state the signing is in. So if they get a notary for $75 they make more than if they have to pay the notary $125.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/12/13 8:31am
Msg #455404

I think it does vary some by state, but I don't necessarily

think they're "pocketing more". I'm sure they bid work according to the location. CA has always been higher for whatever reason. Yes, it does vary slightly by demographics. Only you can decide if your fees cover what you need to make in your area.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 2/12/13 9:49am
Msg #455422

Consider this...

Signing services are at the mercy of the entity placing the order with them. There are limits on fees that TCs will pass through to the borrower to pay. It is the borrower that pays the freight. It is a rarity for a TC to cut into their fees to raise the fee for the SS or NSA.

More than once I have heard escrow officers tell me, "I have never paid a signing agent more than $100 for a refinance signing." You can tell her all day long that your fee is $125 to no avail. You will not get her orders.

Just as signing agents draw lines in the sand of what they consider the value of their services to be, so too do escrow officers draw lines in the sand of what they are willing to ask their clients' borrowers (the realtor or lender most often opens the escrow and are the client for the TC) to pay for the service.

Some markets carry higher typical fees than others. NYC, HI, MA come to mind immediately. Yes, there are some regional differences in base fees, but IMHO that does not determine the margin on the transaction that the better and honorable SS gets. There will always be flaky NSAs that will undercut their competition to gain cash flow- some for necessity to put food on the table, some to gain experience and credentials and some out of ignorance just as there will always be flaky SS out there.

At the end of the day this business is not all that different than any other (and I have owned and operated many over the years). The vendor wants to make more money and the supplier wants to make more money and they do the money dance with each other to find a mutually agreeable fee or they walk.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/12/13 10:45am
Msg #455429

Also consider this ...

Just as their are "flaky" NSAs that undercut the competition, there are SSs that undercut the NSAs. Plenty of SSs market to the TC on prices that land them the contract & lower the bar on the NSAs. I don't think it portrays the whole clear picture to say that SSs are "at the mercy" of the clients.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 2/12/13 11:23am
Msg #455435

Re: Also consider this ...

Never said it was clear cut or "black and white."

I cannot speak to bidding on contracts. We choose to not play that game.

Cutting our billing fees would require us to use newbies that demand lesser fees and that leads to errors and introduces unnecessary impediments to an otherwise good working relationship with our clients. So, we rarely use newbies and our experienced agent get the job done right. We rarely have to send someone back to fix a flub. Clearly this is not the norm based on many of the posts in this forum.

No two business operate the same way.

Reply by janCA on 2/12/13 11:27am
Msg #455437

Re: Also consider this ...

I agree, Renee. The SS's deal in volume, therefore, they can solicit to the TC's with their lowball fees of now what seems to be $100-$125. How low is it going to get before they run themselves and SA's out of business?

I had an SS tell me the other day that for a Chase they don't even get $125. Well, whose fault is that? and why should I, who does the actual work, take the hit? I've been in this business long enough to know there are no standard fees, as many would like you to believe. This keeps being pushed onto the SA, and I know better. Each assignment is subjective and you, as a business owner, have to know what you can charge to make a profit on that particular assignment.

Reply by Pro Mobile Notary on 2/12/13 11:37am
Msg #455444

Re: Also consider this ...

Some people do lie.

I do not believe any SS would accept a full doc signing assignment for less than $125.00.

They were likely using that ploy to justify their lowball fees.

Reply by janCA on 2/12/13 1:26pm
Msg #455481

Re: Also consider this ...

Believe it. Someone called me to do an assignment for not only a full refi, but a POA signing. I asked what they were offering in a fee. I was told they were being paid $100. Holy Moly! I countered with a much higher fee. Of course, they had to get approval from TC. Not only did I receive my fee, but the package ended up being around 170 pages. I charge extra for anything over 125 pages if it is not a regular client. I also received that fee. The fee stated on the HUD for notary services was listed as $75. Now, go figure that one. The SS has a 4*+ rating on NR, so I went with it.