Posted by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 10:44am
Msg #453761

Sec. 8203- Ca. Gov't Code - Notarizing on Military Bases (?)

May notaries who are not federal civil servants notarize documents on military bases in California?

See clauses noted between -->>> <<<--


Section 8203.1. (Amended by Stats. 2003, Ch. 513, Sec. 3.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.1.
The Secretary of State may appoint and commission notaries public for the military and naval reservations of the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Air Force, and Marine Corps of the United States, wherever located in the state; provided, however, that the appointee shall be a citizen of the United States, not less than 18 years of age, and must meet the requirements set forth in paragraphs (3) and (4) of subdivision (a) of Section 8201.

Section 8203.2. (Added by Stats. 1947, Ch. 1360.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.2.
Such notaries public shall be appointed only upon the recommendation of the commanding officer of the reservation in which they are to act, and they shall be authorized to act only within the boundaries of this reservation.

Section 8203.3. (Amended by Stats. 1955, Ch. 244.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.3.
In addition to the qualifications established in Section 8203.1, -->>>appointment will be made only from among those persons who are federal civil service employees at the reservation in which they will act as notaries public.<<<--

Section 8203.4. (Amended by Stats. 1977, Ch. 1009.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.4.
The term of office shall be as set forth in Section 8204, except that the appointment shall terminate if the person shall cease to be employed as a -->>> federal civil service employee at the reservation for which appointed.<<<-- The commanding officer of the reservation shall notify the Secretary of State of termination of employment at the reservation for which appointed within 30 days of such termination. A notary public whose appointment terminates pursuant to this section will have such termination treated as a resignation.

Section 8203.5. (Amended by Stats. 1959, Ch. 1970.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.5.
In addition to the name of the State, the jurat shall also contain the name of the reservation in which the instrument is executed.

Section 8203.6. (Added by Stats. 1947, Ch. 1360.)
Cite as: Cal. Gov't. Code §8203.6.
No fees shall be collected by such notaries public for service rendered within the reservation in the capacity of a notary public.

Reply by Edward Cooke on 2/3/13 10:49am
Msg #453762

Title 10 Section 936 & Title 14 Section 636 of the United States Code and Article 136 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice gives authority to commissioned officers of the Armed Forces of the United States to administer oaths and certify documents. No seal is required and their signature is prima facia evidence of their authority to act as a notary.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 10:51am
Msg #453764

Thanks, Edward, not the question that I am asking.

I appreciate your input. But, I am asking a very specific question so that I understand.

As to my OP, in Texas, we handle that situation on a case by case basis. We (regular notaries) are supposed to contact the SoS before notarizing on a military base.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 11:16am
Msg #453773

Correction.

http://goo.gl/kB4z2

I posted that Tx notaries are supposed to contact the SoS...I thought that was the instruction...maybe it has recently been changed. Now, it looks like http://goo.gl/kB4z2 says that Texans must ask a lawyer.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/3/13 10:51am
Msg #453763

I don't see any prohibition...IMO this information

addresses appointment of notaries within the military, civil service or a "reservation" - I dont see anything that says outside civilian notaries cannot notarize on a military base.

Did I miss it?

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 10:53am
Msg #453766

Linda, I don't know. I have heard it argued both

ways...was hoping someone had asked the Ca. SoS.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/3/13 11:03am
Msg #453770

Yes, we can. I know I sure have... many times!

That code refers to the appointment of notaries working on those bases and restrictions placed on the scope of their commissions as such. Those appointments essentially bypass the traditional commissioning process because they are appointed by their commanders.

It doesn't preclude outside notaries from performing services on the base when the need arises, especially when the the base/post/reservation notaries are closed or unavailable.

I live right next to Edwards AFB and am there fairly often. It can be tricky because they have to sponsor me to drive in, but that's not too difficult. In fact, the base legal office, last I checked, kept a list of local mobile notaries that they handed out to to people for times when the base legal office was closed.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 11:10am
Msg #453772

Thanks, Marian & VT...just wanted to get

that clear in my mind.

http://goo.gl/kB4z2



Does a Texas notary public have jurisdiction on a U.S. military base or Indian reservation?

Maybe not. Texas notaries have statewide jurisdiction. Gov’t Code § 406.003. Accordingly, a Texas notary does not appear to be authorized to take an oath or acknowledgement, or perform any other notarial act, on a federal enclave or an Indian reservation. See Tex. Atty. Gen. Op. JC-0390 (2001) (finding that engineers practicing on a federal enclave are not required to be licensed in Texas). Some, but not all military bases are federal enclaves. To find out if a particular military base is a federal enclave, start your search by emailing us to find out if we have record of a deed of cession. If we do not have a deed of cession, it does not necessarily mean it does not exist. You should consult your private attorney to determine whether the property in question was ceded.

(VT's answer sounds like the Texas view, I think.)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/3/13 11:33am
Msg #453778

Re: Thanks, Marian & VT...just wanted to get

It's a good question, though... I've wondered it myself. Those that I've spoken with have said that since it's being done, essentially, as a private transaction, that we generally don't have any issues. Basically, the consensus was that we aren't told that we CAN'T.... and that our powers are statewide.

Most will contact base notaries first anyway. When I get calls for that, it's usually for after hours or weekends.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/3/13 11:03am
Msg #453771

The sections that BrendaTx don't seem to address the question of whether California notaries who are not federal civil servants, and who obtained their commission in the usual way, may notarize on military bases. The sections seem to be all about allowing federal civil servants who otherwise wouldn't be eligible for A CA notary commission, because they are not CA residents, to be commissioned anyway.

I was curious about what law applies on federal property, and I did some poking around the Internet. It seems this is a very confused area, and it is a major task to figure out whether a particular piece of property is treated as fully subject to state law, it just happens to be owned by the federal government, all the way up to the clause in the constitution that gives Congress authority

"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings"

Of course, the District being referred to is Washington DC, and we know that Washington has it's own laws that are entirely unrelated to the laws of Maryland and Virginia, which ceded the land for Washington. Since forts and dock-yards are in the same clause, it would seem that Congress could, if it wanted to, set up it's own system of notaries for military bases, and could prohibit notaries from the surrounding state from acting on base. But figuring out the position of state notaries on any federal property would take some tricky research for each kind of property, and in some cases, it might be necessary to research the individual property.

In reality, most notaries probably go with the flow and do whatever they see other notaries do.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 11:17am
Msg #453774

Helpful, VT

**The sections that BrendaTx don't seem to address the question of whether California notaries who are not federal civil servants, and who obtained their commission in the usual way, may notarize on military bases. The sections seem to be all about allowing federal civil servants who otherwise wouldn't be eligible for A CA notary commission, because they are not CA residents, to be commissioned anyway.**

Reply by linda/ca on 2/3/13 10:46pm
Msg #453855

Yes, Brenda, you can, however, the big problem is ........

getting pass the military guys at the front gate. I used to have a sticker on my car that allowed me to enter w/o any problems. Pretty cool with the sticker because the Guys would salute me as I enter w/o stopping me.
Warning! If you happen to go onto the military base be sure to go the speed limit cause the military police don't play!

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 2/3/13 11:43am
Msg #453779

Brenda, I asked this question a while ago of the CA SOS notary public section. I get a lot of requests from coworkers, as I work on the base in Ridgecrest. The response I got was that there was nothing in the statutes preventing me from notarizing documents on base. Base legal is only open once or twice a month. I can send you the response if you'd like to see it.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/3/13 11:58am
Msg #453782

Thanks, Priscilla. That would be very welcome and generous

of you. My email is in my profile. Much appreciated.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 2/3/13 1:20pm
Msg #453798

I used to work on base..but not in the legal office. I would do pro bono (so as not to be considered running a business on a government installation) notarizing but only during my lunch or break...since that was not part of my job description.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 2/3/13 1:10pm
Msg #453796

Re: - Concurrent legislative jurisdiction and Miltary bases

The Constitutional Society has some excellent commentary on the issues of jurisdiction between state and federal sovereignties. As expected, they also have this disclaimer:

Disclaimer:

The information on this site is not "legal advice" that might help you achieve favorable outcomes in a court. If you seek an outcome in your case, rather than to take a principled position or to reform the system, you should consult a local lawyer familiar with the facts and "law" in your case, preferably one that is well-connected. For advice on constitutional law, or any legal area,you can perform a lawyer search to find one that specializes in your area of need.

They are however excellent reads if your mind bends that direction. The second article around pages 19 & 20 can appropriately be titled “Got Milk?” You’ll see. I would read that first, very varefully.

Federal Jurisdiction

“In June 1957, the government of the United States published a work entitled Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within The States: Report of the Interdepartmental Committee for the Study of Jurisdiction Over Federal Areas Within the States, Part II, which report is the definitive study on this issue. Therein, the Committee stated:”

http://www.constitution.org/juris/fedjur1.htm

BASIC CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SEVERAL CATEGORIES OF LEGISLATIVE JURISDICTION

http://constitution.org/juris/fjur/1fj4-6.htm

“Concurrent legislative jurisdiction. — Under concurrent jurisdiction, the two sovereigns, the Federal Government and a State, occupy an area, each having all the rights recorded a sovereign with the broad qualification that such rights run concurrently with those of the other sovereign. Exact equivalence of rights is not present, however, for at
20
all times, under this jurisdictional status as under all others, the Federal government has the superior right under the supremacy clause of the Constitution to carry out Federal functions unimpeded by State interference.

State law, including any amendments which may be made by the State from time to time, is applicable in a concurrent jurisdiction area. Thus there is absent the tendency which exists in exclusive jurisdiction areas for general laws to become obsolete. Federal law appertaining generally to areas under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States also applies. State or local agencies and administrative processes needed to carry out various State laws, such as laws relating to notaries, various licensing boards, etc., can be made available by the State or local government in accordance with normal procedures.”