Posted by Laurie N. Douglas on 2/24/13 1:04pm
Msg #457469

Standard Fees...what are they?

My husband and I are new to the business and would like to know what some of you charge for accepting the closing, printing, mileage, etc.

I've lost a couple jobs because I wouldn't accept $90.

I appreciate any advice for this business.

Reply by leeinla on 2/24/13 1:08pm
Msg #457472

Each fee is different to a geographical location. It all depends on your expenses and cost of living.
There is no standard fee.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/24/13 1:19pm
Msg #457474

The best advice we can give you is to start reading, and read every day. Let this be your coffee shop, sit down at the counter and begin your day learning about your business.

I would recommend that you read the thread starting with Msg #33325 . Some of this information is outdated, much stands the test of time and is pertinent today.

Learn this website well - how to search for what is burning holes in your mind by using the Orange Search button. Learn how to navigate and use Signing Central. Be familiar with what NotRot can do for you aside from answering immediate questions. jAfter you get used to how it all works, if you search everywhere and for some reason can't find your answer, then ask.

Signing Central - there is your other homework. See who is well thought of and why. Many have clickable links taking you to their email or website for you to sign up.

You will say 'no' a lot when all the low ballers discover you and think they can get you to work for peanuts. By now you will have found that there are reasons to say no - there is little to no profit on some of the offerings. Learn to negotiate for your price to be on the confirmation for the signing.

If you have a question, chances are it has been asked by many - search first. Need a new printer, computer, phone - all of these items are discussed daily, which is why I say read, read and then read some more. You will be your own best friend this way.

Good luck, and welcome.

Reply by Laurie N. Douglas on 2/24/13 1:29pm
Msg #457476

Thank you jba! Your input is very helpful and I appreciate it!

Reply by Roger_OH on 2/24/13 1:57pm
Msg #457483

As noted, you need to have a business plan that details your expenses for office equipment (laser printer, copier/fax, paper, ink/toner), phone, your vehicle, E&O insurance, advertising, etc. Then you can determine your profitability requirements.

Look at the competitor profiles in the zip codes you serve, then write a better one that will give companies a reason to hire YOU.

Also, don't overlook the abundant opportunities in your area for providing general notary services to the public; these can prove quite lucrative, and you have the satisfation of truly helping those that need your services.

Most importantly, know your state laws thoroughly, read this forum regularly, and take advantage of the loan signing learning info available from NotRot's supply section.

Reply by sueharke on 2/25/13 2:49am
Msg #457617

I suggest reading the post about the Small Business Administration posted earlier. That is the best place to understand your business and how much to charge.

Reply by desktopfull on 2/24/13 1:32pm
Msg #457477

Whatever you decide to make them so that you are making a profit with your business. It would have been prudent of you and your husband to have made that decision with a business plan prior to announcing that you were open for business. Brenda/TX posted a very valuable report yesterday that would be an excellent read for both you and your husband. It's message#457357, the entire thread is very informative.

Reply by Laurie N. Douglas on 2/24/13 1:40pm
Msg #457480

Thank you desktopfull. I will read the message.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/24/13 2:48pm
Msg #457488

We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

are coming from. Rumor has it that someone is marketing that fee to ss & tc's.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 3:51pm
Msg #457498

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

I'm pretty sure Carol Ray is the one responsible for hawking these fees to the SSs and to TCs, and I'd call this good ole fashioned PRICE FIXING. I'd like to have clear evidence of this and see her investigated by the appropriate authorities, namely the Arizona DOJ and any other state she's working in. Maybe even the Federal Attorney General's office.

What do you think, am I warm or hot, or completely cold and wet!

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 3:53pm
Msg #457499

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Just a joke folks, Carol would never do this to us, would ya? No, I think the signing services have waged a war against us and they are trying to fix their fees for us.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 2/24/13 4:08pm
Msg #457502

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

I have received a few calls like this lately, except they begin at $85 and say the most they can pay is $90 when I say that $85 is too low, and that $90 is to cover fax backs (!). When I ask them why they can't pay more than $90 they say because they are only making $100. When I ask them why they are only making $100 when that is the minimum they should expect a Notary to be paid, they go off on how they get a higher volume of business that way, blah blah blah. When I say what good is a higher volume of business going to do when you won't be able to get enough notaries willing to work at low rates to handle the volume, they say they can and have. I then ask why they are calling me if they already have enough... at that point they thank me for their time and move on to the next person. Apparently there are way too many notaries in my area willing to work for low wages, but also apparently not enough to cover EOM. Ah, too bad. I hope Carol Raye's new "uprising" ends up forcing at least a few of them to get hurt bad come this July, but I'm guessing not enough of the people accepting low-paying assignments will get involved and stick to saying no that month.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/24/13 4:30pm
Msg #457506

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Here's the thing... volume makes sense for a ss marketing to a tc, because they can have xx or xxx notaries completing signings at any given moment. The more notaries they have working at one time, the more money they make. So they undercut to the tc, and hope to make up the difference by getting more "volume" from that client and hiring more notaries.

Then it comes to our end of the business... See what's wrong with this picture? How many of you have been able to do more than one signing at any given moment? In fact, high volume at a low fee actually works against you because you are filling up your calendar with low profit margin work, so you're unavailable when something potentially higher paying comes along. For us, "volume" at a low fee is a prescription for poverty...

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 4:35pm
Msg #457507

WE ALL KNOW POVERTY SUCKS! n/m

Reply by Tudi/CA on 2/24/13 6:50pm
Msg #457542

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Who is Carol Raye?

Reply by Robert522TX on 2/24/13 4:12pm
Msg #457503

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Seriously? You think Carol Ray is trying to make a $90 fee standard and acceptable?
I took her courses, and she strikes me as an intelligent business woman who wouldn't sell herself short.
I think this is a case of greed on the part of the SS's, who will continue to go down the line until they find someone desperate or uninformed enough to take the lower fees.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 4:21pm
Msg #457505

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

I agree. Now, a bigger issue, the SSs are competing against each other for business with the TCs. the larger settlement companies are in like Flynn with BofA, Wells and Chase. Their overflow goes to SSs when they don't have the bandwidth to handle. Therein lies the problem...the SSs get these overflow files and they are bidding them perhaps? I don't know the process, but somehow they are working the numbers so they are the successful service, then they arrive at these ridiculous, I'll call them "whistle blowing fees" . However, I'm not sure how much they are getting paid, if they are telling us the truth, that they are getting only $100, or if they are getting $200, or $250, but if the deals are going to get signed, they are going for the lowest taker they can get.

I did get $100 out of Mortgagedocs in Dec. They started at $50 with me. It was an easy peasy seller's package, but I didn't know that when I was negotiating...Good on me.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/24/13 5:38pm
Msg #457517

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Well, after the post yesterday, Msg #457350, plus the uprising post that says,

"Finding these people and getting them to understand what they do to everyone in this business when they consistently take signings for $40, $50 and $60.00."

One could speculate that the $90 is the golden target of the uprising...it's $30 more than those $60 fees.

Robert from TX, welcome, by the way. Take it all in.

Some of us have been reading here for a long, long time. Through reading and re-reading nearly a half-million posts over nine years, we've learned a thing or two. We recognize a bandwagon when we see one. They all have basically the same chassis, but some of them have a different shade of paint, some of them have one horse, not two. Some have fancier wheels, bells, and whistles.

You can bet that the drivers are handing out wool for their takers to pull down over their eyes.

I am very glad to hear you don't know anything about the $90 standard fee business.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/24/13 5:26pm
Msg #457513

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

***am I warm or hot, or completely cold and wet!***

You are somewhere in the parking lot behind left field.

"Price fixing" requires that two or more people or companies comspire to coordinate their prices. That Carol may be trying to persuade various companies to set a $90 fee does no constitute price fixing; it simply represents regrettable, some would evens say repellant, marketing on her part.

If, indeed, that is the fee she is marketing to her clients, I am deeply disappointed in her. Carol received much support from the NSA community, and specifically from those of us on NotRot. I was impressed with her ambition, and her energy. At her request, I even contributed to her web publication. If she is undermining our industry's financial foundation in such a manner, I regard that as the basest of betrayals.

I know that Carol reads NotRot. I'd like to see her respond to this thread.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/24/13 5:33pm
Msg #457515

"I'd like to see her respond to this thread". Me, too,

Hugh. There's been rumors around for a while that she's involved in the lower fees.

Reply by JPH13/MO on 2/24/13 5:40pm
Msg #457518

I will respond for Carol, see his 2nd post!

He was kidding, she doesn't promote taking $90, in fact she time again says to her students that $100 should be their minimum fee, if printing is involved and assignment is nearby and package is not large and no fax backs are required. However, some are in areas where they will not get any work if they stick to this fee, they then have to decide if it is worth it to them to charge less or if they should give up on being a signing agent.

That is why she is promoting her uprising where we are all supposed to contact notaries in our area that we know are taking the low paying jobs (anything under $100 as mentioned above), and let them know that there ARE companies that will pay more, make them aware of NotaryRotary.com's forum, etc. She is trying to get everyone to turn down all low paying assignments for the entire month of July. If enough do this maybe a few companies will get hit hard enough to renegotiate their fees so that they can pay us what we need. She has spoken to SS's and they love the idea. The only reason they can't pay more is that then they won't get any business, it will go to companies like Nation's Direct who charge less and pay the notary $60!

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 5:46pm
Msg #457520

Re: I will respond for Carol, see his 2nd post!

I have been on board with this for the last four plus years. In fact, I have dropped a number of companies this past fall who pay $100 only including edocs even if within 5 miles of me.

Hoping everyone joins the UPRISING! If we all ignore the calls we know are coming from these low ballers, they might begin to hear and GET the message.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/24/13 5:57pm
Msg #457521

That, then, will affect several SS's that come to post here,

tooting their horns, asking little questions prefaced by "what would you if". There are a great number that are offering less than $100 these days - and not just for around the corner or within 3 miles. (Big city - 5 miles is 30-45 mins. for me sometimes) But, read their 4+ star reviews....so the rating system is totally skewed as well by those who do not know their worth.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/24/13 6:59pm
Msg #457545

I am responding for myself!

Someone just called me to let me know that my name is once again being thrown around here and I needed to read this posting. I will now respond for myself with the truth!

First of all, I am not now and have never advocated any kind of price fixing in our industry. I personally have determined what the lowest fee I am willing to work for based on my expenses. I take into consideration the costs to maintain my home office, purchase equipment, printing expenses, travel expenses. etc., just the way most of the professional signing agents on this and other forums determine their costs and how much they need to charge for a signing to stay profitable. I have my bottom line but am always happy to get a signing which pays me more. I like getting $150 - $200.00 on a signing but those are very rare.

That being said, I want to discuss the "Uprising 2013" and the reason I wanted to try to and get as many notary signing agents together with a common goal. The intention is not to price fix, and certainly not for $90.00! I think we have an obligation to inform the uninformed and educate the uneducated.

I believe and teach my students that they are an important part of the loan process. I talk about all of the people who 's paycheck ultimately depends on the NSA doing their job right. I want them to understand that when they are assisting borrower's with their loan documents it is imperative that they do the best job they can because they do hold the paychecks of everyone who came before them in their hands.

Unfortunately not everyone doing this job understands how important they are and they do not realize their value. They may not know or have time to read forums, may not have friends in this business and may not realize that they do not have to take these "lowball" fees when they provide a professional service. I spoke to one of my new students the other day. She is a single Mom, has a part time job, had been previously "certified" by an association, and has done a few signings before coming to take my course. When she read my blog about the uprising she was stunned. She said "oh my gosh, you are talking about me". She told me she had taken a few signings from one company and she was paid $50 per signing. She said she was really discouraged because she had to drive as much as one hour in LA traffic to get to the signing location, print documents, etc. and did not feel that she was really making any money at all.

All we need to do, collectively, is to let these people know that they have a value. They need to understand that they are business people and need to learn how to decide what fees they need to charge to be able to actually make a living. If they decide that they can make a profit on a $40, $50 or $60 signing then so be it. But, we all know better than that!

Unless we do something to stop these companies from offering payments to us like we are high school students flipping burgers, it will get worse. There are so many really good signing services out there who are willing to respect their notaries and pay them a fee that is fair and decent. Don't we owe it to our fellow NSA's to enlighten them?

And think about this if your are afraid of competition. Do you think these reputable companies are going to want to hire people who are not trained or experienced? They are going to force people who don't know what they are doing to either be properly trained or leave the business. We will have a better chance to work on an even playing field. If we show everyone we do value ourselves we might be able to stop these companies from entertaining the idea that they do not need to pay us what we are worth because they see that there are companies out there paying these ridiculous fees and getting away with it.

I believe in teaching and sharing. The result will be a raising of the bar for our industry, which will ultimately have an affect on each and every one of us.

I speak from my heart because I believe what I say. If you take pride in what you do and you care about people who are being taken advantage of and you want to protect the business you are in you will join me. If you don't care and just want to spend your time slamming any effort to make a change or if you want to continue to speculate about my motives that is your call and your privilege.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/24/13 7:30pm
Msg #457552

My post is out of order,

Please read "I speak for myself", above. Thank you!

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 7:41pm
Msg #457556

Re: I am responding for myself!

Carol, thank you for clearing the air. I know you know from performing this work it is not a cake walk and has become more intense and time sensitive over the years. Lately I've been receiving a lot of inquiries about SSs advocating notaries work for $90 as is suggested by their signing class instructors. I know that can't be you. When I taught the loan signing classes in LA, I suggested participants begin negotiating at $100, heck why not shoot for the moon and begin at $150. I've had schedulers say, we're prepared to pay you $200 (or more) because we need you to scan and email the entire package back and get into FEDEX the same day. Why limit your opportunities. I once drove for two hours in the snow through curvy mountainous roads for a Chase refi, $1000. Rate lock expired at midnight. Had to spend the night. Was it worth it..yep,

I am happy to see you are spearheading the Uprising. I think that we can collectively and collaboratively bring about change. More power to you.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/24/13 8:12pm
Msg #457563

Re: I am responding for myself!

Thank you! When I first heard about this posting I was outraged.

Once again people were putting words in my mouth and deciding my intentions without having the courtesy to call me. My phone number is 623-297-9341 which is publicly available and I am always happy to talk with anyone who is interested in what I have to say or someone who questions my motives.

And one other thing. I do encourage my students to set a bottom line for their services and some of them have set fees as high as $125 as their bottom line. Each to his own and each will find their way to what is profitable for them.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 8:30pm
Msg #457570

Re: I am responding for myself!

No reason for you to be outraged, Carol. You're not the one setting fees, but someone is, unfortunately. We're going to break the trend. I hope everyone takes a stand and learns to negotiate their worth.

Reply by Grammyzoom on 2/24/13 8:30pm
Msg #457569

Re: We're all trying to figure out where the new $90 fees

Hugh, I sent you a PM.

I feel very disappointed that after knowing me for such a long time you could even entertain the thought that I would do anything to hurt the wonderful people in this industry, including you.

You have been an inspiration to me, a confidant a few times and keep me laughing with your sharp wit and terrific sense of humor.

I hope I would never cause you to be anything but supportive of my efforts to educate and promote awareness.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/24/13 6:10pm
Msg #457525

Everyone talks about low SS fees but is

anyone else noticing that TC are also offering those $90 to $100 fees? I have.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 6:18pm
Msg #457528

Re: Everyone talks about low SS fees but is

NEGOTIATE, Carol. Are you printing these docs, how many notarizations, are you picking up and dropping back, or signing in their offices.

One of my local TCs offered me $70 to sign in their office. I declined. Bigger fish in the pond.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/24/13 6:25pm
Msg #457531

You haven't followed my posts. I am negotiating and I've had

very little work the past few months. I know consider myself on strike. Bring on the Uprising. Too many notaries around me working for these cheap fees.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/24/13 6:27pm
Msg #457532

Now not know n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 2/24/13 6:32pm
Msg #457534

Re: You haven't followed my posts. I am negotiating and I've had

what about GNW, do you have a smart phone? How many calls are you receiving? It just may be your region is slow these past months.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 2/24/13 7:02pm
Msg #457546

A notary in NC can only charge for the notarization

and all places of business who notarize for customers are required to do them for general public. That should answer that question and yes I have a smart phone and about 2 to 3 calls a day since my former clients now know I'm asking $100 minimum.

Reply by ikando on 2/24/13 11:22pm
Msg #457608

Re: Everyone talks about low SS fees but is

Yes, the Title and escrow companies are also choosing the lowest fee person. I just had a call earlier this week from an escrow company which had clients from their area who came here for an emergency with a family member. The closing needed to take place "either Friday, Saturday or Sunday" somewhere in town. Considering "town" covers three counties, and can be as far as 40 miles from one side to the other, I made an estimated fee bid, keeping in mind that I would be holding my breath that this closing wouldn't interfere with any other business that might come in.

I contacted the hiring party later to see if I was in the running, as it had been a broadcast email invitation to bid. I was told that she was told to hire the least expensive notary, who took the job for $80. I asked who the lender was, and found out that it was one which has large packages, so I was glad I didn't get it after all.

Reply by Mia on 2/24/13 6:43pm
Msg #457538

Read this from 7 years ago....

Here is a way to start to think about "Per Signing Expenses" -- the amounts that you will see are much
higher now but, you will get an idea on how to determine your costs.
See Msg# 130376 and read the comments of others in that thread.


.