Posted by NJDiva on 2/2/13 8:39am
Msg #453591
What do you think?
I have done a couple of closings in the past year for an attorney's office in NY. I was just informed yesterday that their clients need a background check. I offered them the background check I got from a (very much despised here on NR) well known entity. They told me I could send it to them but if it doesn't cover the criteria needed I would have to pay $100 to get one from the company they use.
I asked them what the criteria is that they need and they stated: "The information that our clients require in the background report are, SSN trace, criminal, credit, and education."
I ask you, why do they need a bgr on my education and furthermore, why do they need a credit check?
For one thing, I am NOT paying $100 for a BGS from a company that I barely do work for and for another I don't understand why they need a credit check and education screening. I'm not an employee nor looking to become one.
Thanks for any clarification you can provide.
| Reply by MW/VA on 2/2/13 8:44am
Msg #453595
I wouldn't do it. There are companies these days
making extra $$$$ for bgc's. We're not employees & don't have to submit to anything like that.
| Reply by NJDiva on 2/2/13 8:48am
Msg #453597
That's what I thought too Mar! Thanks! n/m
| Reply by ikando on 2/2/13 9:21am
Msg #453607
Re: I wouldn't do it. There are companies these days
I've noticed in my area that there are several companies that perform background checks. They range from private companies to groups related to a private university. I've even been asked to gather information for those companies to be provided to their clients.
Seems bgc business is the up and coming cash cow. But what about privacy if every hiring company wants a bgc from their chosen provider? Not to mention the expense!
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/2/13 1:56pm
Msg #453646
Bingo!!
"...bgc business is the up and coming cash cow. But what about privacy if every hiring company wants a bgc from their chosen provider? Not to mention the expense!"
I completely agree. I think this is going to become the new thing - and from places where it was never an issue before - and not just related to our business. It's an area ripe for the picking from scam artists, too, so I think lots of caution will be called for. Until there's some backlash - and I suspect there will eventually be some (or further regulations involving use and access to all our personal information) - I suspect this is a good time for all to be a little extra vigilant, at least, with passing around all our personal information. Just a gut feeling...
| Reply by 101livescan on 2/2/13 2:52pm
Msg #453653
Re: Bingo!!
In California at least, an individual/company must be authorized and licensed by the Attorney General's office to be able to perform background checks. This company may charge for the service but outsource to several agencies. I perform live scans for criminal and personal injury clients of attorneys because the attorney wants to see exactly what is on their rap sheet before getting into court and having a state or county attorney have more information on their client than they have. Some law firms subscribe to Lexis Nexus and they will do checks on people before they take a case, or do checks on people who are the target of a lawsuit.
The educational and credit history files being required I believe are completely out of line.
In CA if a contractor wants to bid on a job with a school district, all workers employed by that contractor must be live scanned. The contractor must be live scanned to obtain a contractors license. Many contractors have terrible credit because they are great craftsmen but terrible with their paperwork and paying bills.
So many people don't even have good credit these days, this seems to be completely unnecessary, especially to do notary work if we've been commissioned by our SOS and background checked to be able to work as NSAs serving lenders, title and escrow.
I'm all about my privacy. I hate that lenders do a check on our personal history as a loan is closing, to make sure we've not been convicted of any crimes or participated in any foreign arms, drugs or money laundering activities during the two year space when we renew our BGCs. It's called fraud guard, and every borrower, notary and escrow officer is checked out before the loan funds.
| Reply by 101livescan on 2/2/13 9:03am
Msg #453602
I wouldn't do it either. It's expensive and for what? Even if you were making more money with them, it's unnecessary. You're an out sourced vendor, not their "human capital".
Have a great day!
| Reply by NJDiva on 2/2/13 9:08am
Msg #453605
Hi Cher! Thanks! n/m
| Reply by Natacha Joseph on 2/2/13 9:37am
Msg #453608
Personally, I think you should just say "No" my dear. The request is above and beyond the scope of reasoning. As you said, you're not an employee so why oh why would that information be needed?!
I too was contacted by the same law firm and asked to conform to those requests. I declined to remit the information. Serving as an independent contractor, I believe it's invasive so no can do. I've been performing closings for their office for several years. This was the first time they've asked for copies of a credit report and education screening. In all my years as an NSA, they are the only firm who have asked for these additional searches.
Each company reserves the right to request whatever they deem necessary for employability -within certain confines. Brace yourself for their decision. In other words, make sure you can do without them as a source of revenue in case they stand their ground. Hopefully if enough NSAs refuse -- they'll have a change of heart.
Best of luck to you individually in the matter.
| Reply by A S Johnson on 2/2/13 9:58am
Msg #453610
The request for credit and educational screening maybe just a way to help reduce the number of notaries they have in their active data base.
In the military service going thru the file of all men that were prospective canadites for promotion was to look for any negative reports so they could be removed from the promotion list. In our case as being I C for this comapny they are adding more items you need to have for themto do business with them. I'm sure if you were the only Notary in an area and they needed you, you would find this requirement would be dropped.
| Reply by ArtG/KS on 2/2/13 10:00am
Msg #453611
This BGC has turned into a cacophony of pure non-sense. Who does the BGC on those who do the BGCs? What are their qualifications of education, integrity and the same goes for the recipient of those BGCs at the companies supposedly requiring them.
I have one done every two years that is sent to my in locked PDF. They are referenced for verification, and any one wanting one done by some other BGC company MUST do so at their expense, not mine.
| Reply by NJDiva on 2/2/13 10:28am
Msg #453617
Could it be because I have gone to a business fed number
as opposed to my SS#? I just switched from a sole proprietorship to an LLC. I used to always (against my better judgment) sens over the W-9 with my SS. This is the first time I've ever had the request for the extensive BGC.
Could that be the reason?
| Reply by Yoli/CA on 2/2/13 10:35am
Msg #453619
Re: Could it be because I have gone to a business fed number
I seriously doubt that's the reason. I'd hazard to guess that most of us here use an EIN rather our SS#'s -- at least, I hope we do -- and that doesn't target us for a bgc. Like someone above stated, "the new cash cow" and good marketing on the part of those bgc providers.
| Reply by sueharke on 2/2/13 11:51am
Msg #453627
Re: Could it be because I have gone to a business fed number
Why didn't you get a EIN instead of using your SSN?
| Reply by Barb25 on 2/2/13 11:48am
Msg #453625
Where the heck have you been Buddy?
What company do they use? Is there any other advantage to you to have this BCG in you arsenal? I.e., will it bring you any other business? Can your business be increased substantially by having this? In other words, they are not asking you that you "purchase" this through them, they are asking that you provide a BCG that includes certain criteria that NR does not include, right?
The EIN is tied to your SS, so that is a non-issue.
| Reply by sueharke on 2/2/13 11:49am
Msg #453626
Here are several instances where background checks might have helped.
A receptionist at a function with lawyers took the lawyers personal information and used it for identity theft. I'm not saying this is a bad thing to happen to some lawyers, but a bcg might have prevented her from her actions.
A secretary was stealing from the company. She had a history of similar actions at prior employers. A bcg might have discovered this issue.
In the world of finance, anyone who handles money and personal information is now in a new world where bcg are required. One of the most important checks in this area is a credit check to make sure the person might not be tempted to steal money or ID.
I don't agree with picking only a particular company to do the bcg, but if I hired an employed who had access to money or ID information, I would want a complete bcg prior to hiring. I would expect the same of any company who hired me as a employee or IC.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/2/13 2:36pm
Msg #453651
"One of the most important checks in this area is a credit check to make sure the person might not be tempted to steal money or ID."
This assumption bothers me a lot....especially right now when a LOT of people have poor credit because they've been out of work, lost their homes, filed for bankruptcy, etc. Poor credit does does NOT always make one tempted to be a criminal. In fact, it's been my experience, that some of the most honest people I know have poor credit... and some of the creepiest, slickest crooks have spotless credit because they know how to keep it clean.
Here's a great example... a good friend and her husband and family lost their home to foreclosure. Her husband was laid off from a 6-figure paying job 5 years previous and they'd lived on their savings for years, quite frugally. Thing is, they didn't have a large savings because they were way young and he'd only worked that job for 2 years out of college before being laid off. He works in a very specialized field and just couldn't find work again. They were trying to rent an apartment and were turned down left and right due to poor credit. These two people are the MOST honest, decent people I know. They would never steal from anyone. They believe so strongly in that that they refuse to even file for bankruptcy... they insist on paying off their debts, no matter how long it takes, or how late the payments are.
He had a great interview recently, but did NOT get the job because the BGC revealed poor credit and he couldn't get a security clearance...based SOLELY on his credit. They wanted to hire him, but because he was laid off and could find work and because they lost their home... he couldn't get a job... because now, people think he's some kind of perceived risk, when all he wants to do is work honestly to pay those debts.
Now, here's the real kicker... they DID eventually find a place to live. His wife got a real estate license and they got a live-in job as apartment managers. The apartment comes with the job and THEY lease apartments to people, under credit guidelines. She told me that there was a guy who came in an applied for 6-month lease on an apartment with nearly perfect credit. No problem, immediate approval. She says that they still can't prove it yet, but they're positive that he's running prostitutes in and out of that apartment. He's really slick... but until they can prove it, there's nothing they can do.
Meanwhile, her husband still can't find work except as the apartment building's handyman and manager. He hates it. The guy has a PhD in Chemical Engineering.
SO yeah... I'm a wee bit bitter about the attitude toward the use of checking credit reports. I think it's unnecessary sometimes and often not at all indicative of who you're dealing with. Some of it also has to do with the fact that after my husband's accident that disabled him we were hit with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medicals bills and had to deal with the resulting attorneys, insurance and other nightmares that had.
Can they help? Maybe... but I also think that relying on them can do more damage than good, because they simply don't tell you everything... AND it's well known that they are FULL of errors.
| Reply by sueharke on 2/2/13 2:47pm
Msg #453652
I don't always like the information I post in this forum from a personal perspective. I am posting to show the business point of view and why he or she might want this type of bcg. I do agree with Marian that this information is misused by business (especially car insurance companies). I also agree that he or she learns how to abuse the system (as in the apartment renter in your post). A business looks at numbers, not reasons why the number exists and the personal background.
Do we want changes? He__ yes! Is is likely that these situations will change in the current political system? He__ NO!
If anyone has a way to change the system and the right contact to make the change happen, I'd love to be part of the change.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/2/13 2:09pm
Msg #453649
Wow... no way!
Yeah, I can see a criminal clearance and probably even verification of citizenship status, but credit? That's way, way outside the scope of the work. And why would they need to check your education? If you're handling closings, the only education you'd need to prove is that as may be required to do the job, if any.
Yeah, I think it's just them buying in to an expensive and unnecessary EMPLOYEE background check. I'd decline. Tell them you're not an employee and some of the information has no bearing on the job you perform for them, nor frankly, as an independent contractor, is it any of their business.
| Reply by sueharke on 2/2/13 2:54pm
Msg #453655
Re: Wow... no way!
The reason companies check the educational background is that there is too much inflation of educational background. I personally keep certified copies from the school that I received my MBA from. Why, if the school is destroyed or the records destroyed by some reason, I have proof.
There have been various people in business, education, and government who have lied about their educational degrees. If the job calls for him or her with a degree and a certain course of study, companies are checking. The fact that he or she received a college degree is public information and this is how the press gets that the information causing many company CEO's or State employees to quit under fire for lying on their resume. This I totally agree too as I worked by hind end off to get that degree. Why should someone who lied get off easy.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/2/13 3:32pm
Msg #453660
Re: Wow... no way!
It does strike me as weird that people would lie about their education when it can be so easily verified... I've NEVER understood that.
I'm not opposed to anyone verifying anything about me if it is relevant to the work I'll be doing. I mean, that makes sense. They want to hire me to do loan work... let's verify her Notarial commission for sure. Let's even run a criminal check... I'm cool with that. Where I get annoyed is when they start getting nosy... looking at things that really have no bearing on the scope of the work. And it is REALLY annoying when they want *ME* to pay for the extraneous snooping.
| Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 2/2/13 6:35pm
Msg #453690
What IS the relevance of your education - so they know
able to spell your name? If you've been commissioned by the State, bcgr'd by the State...???
I still have a 24 pg sign-up pkg (yes - 24 pgs!) for a companythat I've just been too busy to fill out. Glancing over it - it's 6 times longer than most job applications - unless they've changed in the last 10 yrs! SMH!
| Reply by Sandra G Holland on 2/2/13 7:25pm
Msg #453696
Re: What IS the relevance of your education - so they know
If they treat you like an employee, then legally they should be treated that way. When the job ends, you can file for unemployment--against them. They should take out for income taxes.
These are all good comments you all have made.
I have two other jobs besides being a notary. For one, I get most of my assignments via the Internet. The new companies nearly always request a W-9. Some of them do consider me an employee, even the one that gives me work only about every six weeks. Some tell me they will do background checks, and there is a form for that, which I sign.
I don't know why they would need to check your education. Asking for the information is one thing. I've found that even college graduates sometimes can't spell. (Substitute at a school sometime and read even what the teacher puts on the board! I politely correct the spelling. Yes, I do substitute on occasion because I like it. So I guess that is my third job. I substituted one day this week.) There isn't much of an opportunity to write when notarizing loans. Having a degree does help me understand what I am doing.
The other job is doing background checks. In my small county, they aren't frequent. Just because someone has a record doesn't mean that the record is accurate. I saw one file at the courthouse that had two addresses and the person's signature. There was no record of personal description, driver's license number, date of birth or social security number. Online reports don't give much information. If the person has lived in different states, it increases the places to search. No one guarantees that the information is accurate. I've seen two people's records in the same file at the courthouse.
I was going to say, "Where is the background check on all of them?" Somebody beat me to it. From the comments on the forums about companies that don't pay, it seems that we all should do background checks on the companies, board of director members, and everybody. What an expense, though!
| Reply by Chakwaina on 2/5/13 3:38pm
Msg #454131
They do the credit check to 'verify" identity and to see if you are "reliable". Frankly, I don't think that is a good way to do either thing.
The education check is baffling to me--maybe they are using your BGS for recruiting purposes?
I wouldn't do it.
Frankly, in 8 years (with a 2 year break) I have never had one. Only been asked for one once and was told it was required. They called me back to do the signing as there were no other NSA's in the area.
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