Posted by NJDiva on 2/4/13 3:15pm
Msg #453938

What is going on???? Received calls today from two

companies who USED to be fair paying companies. This is the problem with those of you who are undercutting. These company's are going to start setting precedences of lower fees.

Wake up folks. Those of you taking lowball fees are not going to be able to stay in business but in the interim its causing irreparable damage to this industry.

I just had an offer from a company for $95 for a 6:30am (yes, that's morning) closing with fax backs for $95. Um, NOT!!!! Edoc's $1XX and a $10 fax back fee. She acted like that was outrageous. Are you frkn KIDDING me? I didn't even charge extra for the early morning closing.

So she said that she would give me a call back if she couldn't get it covered...I laughed and said oooh, well if that's the case, by that time, it will be $20 more (in reality, that's what it should be ANYWAY.) She started laughing (I think she thought I was kidding.)

Quite honestly, I wouldn't cover it if they offered me $50 more. I'm not keeping them in business. Hopefully it won't get covered and will go to a fair paying company.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/4/13 3:30pm
Msg #453942

WAY TO GO CHERYL! Let them spend more time trying to find someone.

I didn't take call from Neartoyounotary just now and happy I did, I received two other gigs $150 each package...it's a complete waste of time to fill your day with $65-$90 edoc packages.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/4/13 3:50pm
Msg #453946

I got offered $90 for a BOA entire fax back pkg today. Two min after I declined, I was called for one in my town 2 miles away for XXX. Sweet

Reply by NJDiva on 2/4/13 3:57pm
Msg #453947

Amen sista! Go Linda!!! And with no faxbacks I'm sure!!! n/m

Reply by La Trese Breaux on 2/4/13 4:06pm
Msg #453949

I understand how you feel, I get calls for orders in a rural area to sign a grant deed no printing the borrower has the document. I was getting paid $1XX. Now there is a new signer who is accepting $65 for the same job. So when they call me they want to offer me the same lowball amount, then I have to educated the coordinator on why my fee is $1XX
there’s no street signs, its nothing but dirt roads, the property is on 5 or more acres with 3 or more dogs (that are running free) there’s no street lights (for night signing) you have no cell service, you have to locate the house by finding the mail box and if the mail box does not have the address on it you have to play the matching game. If you ask a neighbor they look at you like hmmmm nooooo I don’t know where that street is. When you find the house it’s on the dirt road that’s next to the neighbor house that never heard of that street name LOL.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/4/13 4:15pm
Msg #453952

"there’s no street signs, its nothing but dirt roads, the property is on 5 or more acres with 3 or more dogs (that are running free) there’s no street lights (for night signing) you have no cell service, you have to locate the house by finding the mail box..."

Hmm.... sounds some of my appointments. LOL Only, often, there's no mailbox, either...

Reply by sueharke on 2/4/13 7:56pm
Msg #454000

Did the SS offer GPS coordinates?

Reply by pdl/cali on 2/4/13 8:48pm
Msg #454006

I often feel like a stalker at night. Looking for street signs and addresses. Yet all the same, I will never accept anything less for XXX.XX. Sadly the ole signing companies have found notaries who accept 65.00-85.00. Work their tails off for no profit.

Reply by docgirl on 2/4/13 4:09pm
Msg #453950

This sounds like a bunch of whining to me. This has been my slowest day in Months, so I decided to go on here and read some of the complaints. I find that fax backs are a great help when the lender wants to say something is missing or went unsigned, I have a paper trail to prove them wrong. (Always trying to get us to clean up their missing docs) Also 9 out of 10 companies are paying $90-$100 and it pays my bills. So I just want to ask how busy do you all stay? Off to my 5th signing today.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/4/13 4:16pm
Msg #453953

<<This has been my slowest day in Months .... Off to my 5th signing today. >>

You have 5 signings in today and it's your slowest day in months?!?

You're SPECIAL!

(Ooops, sorry, hope this didn't sound like whining.)

Reply by Susan DeMarco on 2/4/13 4:31pm
Msg #453959

Turned down 3 today - did zerio - accepted 1 for tomorrow. Turned down 2 from Nations Direct to drive 40 miles roundtrip and print and fax back 37 pages for structured settlements - their offer 43.00 - I did not counter - just said no thank you and requested to again be off their call list. Nations sister company then called and offered 40.00 for one of the signings. Same response from me.

If you accept lower fees today - next months fees will be even lower.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 4:28pm
Msg #453957

Way to go docgirl! I am ok with $90-$100 signings too. I would much rather take the signings than be sitting here on this board getting paid NADA!

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/4/13 5:55pm
Msg #453977

I have my taxes done on Wednesday and I will figue my net profit as a percentage. I will post it here to see if I'm in the ballpark with everyone elce.I expect my net profit after all expences including taxes to be around 60%. We'll see.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/4/13 4:34pm
Msg #453960

" This has been my slowest day in Months....Off to my 5th signing today. "


ANd that's the person taking the these jobs. If he/she thinks it's paying the bills, sobeit. My guess is that it it might be paying the immediate bills... but it won't satisfy the IRS bill.

I've sat down with several notaries who swore up and down to me that they were making money taking $70-$90 standard loan singing jobs, had them write down all of their expenses (including taxes) and incorporate the needed profit margin.

Do you know how many of them were right?

None.

One was very close, but she was still short of making enough profit. Strangely enough SHE was the one who got the point the fastest.

Each of us is different in our expense and profit needs... so some can take lower fees than others. I have no issues with that. But I also know that a lot of the ones who do take the low fees and then brag about how great they're doing don't stick around long once reality catches up to them.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/4/13 4:40pm
Msg #453961

Have you done your taxes yet Christy/CA?

I bet you are making minimum wage and don't even know it.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 4:42pm
Msg #453962

Re: Have you done your taxes yet Christy/CA?

Yes, I have been in the biz for over 5 years. I do not pay for printing, maybe that is the difference?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/4/13 4:54pm
Msg #453964

Are you serious? You don't pay for printing?


No paper costs? no ink costs? no printer(s) costs? no computer to print e-doc costs?

If you don't pay for printing, then you are not nor ever have been "in the biz" as you put it.

Reply by pdl/cali on 2/4/13 9:17pm
Msg #454017

Re: Are you serious? You don't pay for printing?

Someone is paying for Christy's printing and have no idea. Sounds like a scam for her own benifit.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/4/13 4:55pm
Msg #453965

Re: Have you done your taxes yet Christy/CA?

" I do not pay for printing, maybe that is the difference?"


*cough*

And who IS paying for that printing? Your employer? Dd they know they're supplementing your independent business? Does THEIR accountant know they are paying printing expenses for somebody else's business?

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 5:21pm
Msg #453967

Re: Have you done your taxes yet Christy/CA?

Don't jump to conclusions. You ask a question and then jump right into my employer. Relax! My complex has an office that we can use for business purposes. This includes 2 dual tray laser printers, computer work stations, and copiers. I do bring my own laptop downstairs. I would have this laptop whether I was a notary or not. "calmate"

Reply by anotaryinva on 2/4/13 5:29pm
Msg #453968

That is a pretty generous perk

That they don't mind you printing that kind of volume. I would if I was a neighbor.

Reply by ananotary on 2/4/13 5:31pm
Msg #453969

Some people will never get the work smarter

not harder concept.

Reply by Sha/CA on 2/4/13 5:36pm
Msg #453970

Sounds like some who still live with mom and dad. Who pays n/m

Reply by ananotary on 2/4/13 5:38pm
Msg #453971

Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

mooching and printing off someone elses back.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/4/13 5:49pm
Msg #453972

Re: Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

I agree... this isn't a true "business" if you are relying on a business center for freebie printing, especially that kind of volume. It's a great perk, sure... but My guess is that if the "complex" where you live really knew the true volume you were using they'd consider it abuse of the privilege. The paper, toner and other printing consumable costs are extremely high.

If they do know and approve, then I sure hope you're paying for it with your rent/mortgage/HOA fees. But yeah, if you were my neighbor, I'd be all over that complaining. It's one thing to use an area for business purposes, but I'm pretty sure they didn't intend it to be used for high-volume printing on a regular basis.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 5:52pm
Msg #453974

Re: Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

How is that not exactly running a business! The comments are hilarious. Not surprised since many people are so negative and quick to jump on someone. I live in a nice complex that provides office stations and work space. That is a perk or living here. I enjoy the amenities of the complex. I do not live with my parents. I thought this was a place for Notaries not comedians!

Reply by ananotary on 2/4/13 5:55pm
Msg #453976

Are you missing the point on purpose? n/m

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 5:56pm
Msg #453978

Re: Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

BTW... I do have a dual tray printer and do use it on occasion. You are right, I do pay HOA fees and do technically pay for this. I wish someone would complain about me using the amenity. If I use the pool everyday would someone complain about that too? "Oh No, my neighbor is using the tennis courts daily!"

Reply by ananotary on 2/4/13 6:02pm
Msg #453979

Question..

"Yes, I have been in the biz for over 5 years. I do not pay for printing, maybe that is the difference?"

I think by this statement you do know that the fees you are working for do not make a profit for a notary that really is in business (printing costs, etc.). So you work that out of the equation and have figured that you are making a profit. Right?

Otherwise you would be stating that working at those fees would not be profitable when you factor in printing costs, I'm assuming.

You have a different business model than others, if it works for you, so be it. Just think how much more money you **could** make if you had a different model even printing on someone elses dime. I'm not condining it, just saying that working smarter not harder is a universal concept.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 6:09pm
Msg #453980

Re: Question..

You are right. This is how I personally justify taking the $90-$100 signings if I am not doing a signing directly for a Title Company or Escrow Office directly. The Escrow Office I work with sends the both sets of the documents directly to the borrower. I would much rather do those signings, but I do not mind filling in spots with the other signings. Works for me.....

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/4/13 6:13pm
Msg #453982

Re: Question..

This is no different than a company calling me last week for a signing 120 miles away. The ONLY notary that was closer and would pick up the phone told her she only does 2 signings a week for spending money. Even the scheduler thought that was wrong of her, when the rest of us are trying to make a living and constantly getting undercut by someone wanting to go on a shopping spree.
When you don't have to pay for the BULK of the expense of this business, like you are, all I can say girl is you don't have a clue. Thanks so much.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 6:21pm
Msg #453984

Re: Question..

I live in an area that is saturated with Notaries. I get the $65, $75 calls etc and do turn them down. Obviously someone is taking those jobs if these companies are still around and calling. I refuse those calls. Calls at $100 are not undercutting anyone. I would rather take this signing than not make the $100.00 at all. Looking at the hud some of these signing services get $110.0-$125.00. It works for me.

Reply by Susan DeMarco on 2/4/13 6:24pm
Msg #453986

Spare Toner - Paper ????

Question - what do you do when the toner or paper runs out and the complex office is closed ? Do they keep unlimited access to extra toner and paper ?? Legal Paper as well ? Sounds too good to be true to me - but - sure but be nice.

Reply by Susan DeMarco on 2/4/13 6:20pm
Msg #453983

Re: Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

Question - what do you do when the toner or paper runs out and the complex office is closed ? Do they keep unlimited access to extra toner and paper ?? Legal Paper as well ? Sounds too good to be true to me - but - sure but be nice.

Reply by Christyl/CA on 2/4/13 6:23pm
Msg #453985

Re: Exactly. Not exactly running a business when you are

I have a dual tray printer. I wasn't trying to argue with anyone on this board. More to prove a point that not everyones situation is the same. I was just explaining why at times I do accept a $100 job.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/4/13 7:19pm
Msg #453994

LOL. Oh my goodness! This is hilarious.

I am almost certain that there is a clause in the condo covenants that says that amenities on the property may not be used for a for-profit business endeavor. You would think that people would recognize that, but good grief, you have to spell everything out. It's a place to LIVE, not a place to run a business. For instance, one cannot teach swimming lessons to a group in the pool and keep residents from having the use and enjoyment of the pool in favor of running a little side business.

As one who has been on the board of a condo community, I can say that this is not the personal use and enjoyment of an amenity like swimming and tennis. This is straight up wearing out the community's equipment in order to make a profit. It's wrong.

Most people do not read the condo rules. They do as they please and get mad as a wet hen later when they get caught breaking the rules they have agreed to.

I enjoy living in a condo, but I've got a sense of fair play and no sense of entitlement that the condo community should help me make a living.

Reply by MikeC/TX on 2/4/13 6:33pm
Msg #453988

"I've sat down with several notaries who swore up and down to me that they were making money taking $70-$90 standard loan singing jobs, had them write down all of their expenses (including taxes) and incorporate the needed profit margin.

Do you know how many of them were right?

None."

It's very easy to fall into the "I'm making money" trap when they don't look at the big picture. All they know is that they're getting a bunch of jobs, the checks are coming in (if they're lucky), and the bills are being paid. For some folks, that's enough to prove to themselves that they're making money.

But as you said, once they are forced to sit down and look at their expenses - including taxes on that money that is paying the bills - they begin to realize that there is no profit margin; in fact, they may be operating at a loss after taxes. But they'll keep doing the same thing, because it "pays the bills."

The more experienced people here keep trying to explain that you can't possibly make a profit by charging less than what your cost of doing business is - and that "volume" in that situation is the worst thing you can do - but they just won't listen. I don't know why anyone keeps banging their head against this particular wall. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water....

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/4/13 10:44pm
Msg #454032

Boy, hasn't there been some great information imparted over

the years? And Cheryl's been a faithful reminder about the Big Picture, budgeting, and more, for this new batch of minnows... [in this 'old shark' tank ]

Used to be, in the old'n days of this forum, anyone could, post, say (Cue: Mac the Knife) and Sylvia'd have it for us. Heck, she used to start our Day with a song. Maybe that's how the Leisure and JP developed?

Anyway, perhaps another room? (No, not for Music, chortle.) Something like: Staying Afloat vs Financial Stability...or Water Cooler...or well, you get my drift.

I'm so pro-Small Business Administration's programs - love Business Plans, learning to Network, and so much more. Wholeheartedly suggest QuickBooks to do the thing that is the hardest to do when we're self-employed: separate Business from Personal money/budget-wise. Makes taxes, forms, filing, etc much simpler for CPA Guy.

As for leading that willful young horse to water, I try to have hope: ...drink, don't drink...

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/4/13 6:27pm
Msg #453987

"Also 9 out of 10 companies are paying $90-$100"

Of the companies YOU deal with maybe, but not of all the companies out there. If you really believe that 9/10 companies out there are paying these lowball prices, then you are marketing only to the lowballers. If lowballers are YOUR customers, that's fine, they aren't mine or most other professional NSA's customers.

docgirl, don't confuse "being busy" and cash-flow with actually making a profit. If all you are concerned with is staying "busy", drop your ask to $50 per signing and see how "busy" you can stay.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/4/13 8:08pm
Msg #454002

At my stage in life, I prefer to sign four files at $150+ than eight files at $75-$100.

Simple mathematics. I once ran around like a chicken with my head under my wing, but not any more. You lose something in quality of service, AND you're not working for the right vendors.

I had a fellow notary in my area who printed all her docs at her work. She got fired. Then, she wanted to buy toner and paper and come hang out in my office and print from my office. THINK AGAIN, lazy. Go get your own work horse printer. All the money she saved in paper and toner at her job could certainly buy a 4250 DTN laser, ya think. It is morally wrong to use a business's supplies to fund your own for profit business.

I think the person who is pilfering the HOA supplies needs to read the XYZ's Code of Ethics.

Reply by docs1954CA on 2/4/13 8:27pm
Msg #454003

I agree, the only way to make anything on that crappy fee is to print for free.

Now if you have a free company car,gas included too, you have it made! You're helping the Title and SS make more money. Good for you.

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/4/13 9:29pm
Msg #454018

And not one mention of popcorn?

I'm going to have to go back through this one a third time. It's much needed mental floss after dealing with doctors, attorneys, and insurance companies ("oh my" with my best Judy Garland) after the wife's accident...

Reply by BobbiCT on 2/5/13 6:45am
Msg #454051

New inexperienced NSAs getting advice to ...

I read on another board where "no experience" NSAs are advised to work for the low fee, slow pay companies at whatever the scheduler is willing to pay "to get experience." Upside - experience can be added to NSA's resume. Downside - wonder if NSA earns enough to cover costs or makes a net profit with enough to put aside for when state and federal taxes come due.

Risk vs. Reward. Scheduler accepts the novice and Reward is higher profit to the scheduling company if all goes well. Risk = it doesn't go well, scheduler doesn't call that NSA; it could take quite a few signings before any fatal errors are discovered. Say, 1 out of 10 signings using inexperienced NSAs go "bad"; the scheduling company is still financially ahead.

Yesterday I learned of a notary who's been doing webcam notarizations in CT for people out of state. CT Notary Handbook does not specifically define personal appearance to EXCLUDE webcam notarizations. In notary's opinion "seeing through a webcam" is the same as personal appearance because the notary can see the person. Secretary of State's office has not posted a different opinion. P.S. Not my definition of "personal appearance." I am OLD SCHOOL: Personal appearance is reach out and touch someone, not through an Iphone or webcam.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/5/13 8:25am
Msg #454058

Bobbi - page 6 of the CT manual

"Notarization via video-conference is not allowed. The signer is not considered to have
“personally appeared” before the notary, as required by statute. Additionally, a Connecticut
notary does not have the authority to notarize within the state when the signer is out of state"

http://www.ct.gov/sots/lib/sots/legislativeservices/forms/notarymanual.pdf