Posted by pat/WA on 2/8/13 6:45pm
Msg #454876

a NEW ONE

No matter how long you are in this business there is always a new twist.
Today I had a borrower call and insist in very loud words that I am to email her a copy of all the documents prior to our signing appointment.
I advised her that I am not authorized to do that. She replied in not so polite words that I don't need authorization. She used to do it all the time when she was a mobile notary.
I am considering turning the signing back as the borrower is very antagonistic towards me for refusing to do this
Comments?

Reply by Tiffany Johnson on 2/8/13 7:04pm
Msg #454878

I recently had that happen to me. about a week ago, i had a borrower ask me to email him his documents. I explained to him the same thing. He got really irate with me and couldnt understand why i couldnt do it. I ended up calling the SS and having them find someone else to handle it. I dont need to be abused on a job because you dont like my answer. Its almost like he felt I was working personally for him. The nerve.

Reply by Jessica/FL on 2/8/13 7:05pm
Msg #454879

I went to a borrowers home after confirming the time and location. There was no answer and I heard people talking in the home. I knocked a few times and waited and then called them. I could hear the phone ringing. I left a message. I called the LO and was advised to leave. I got an angry call the next day that I didn't show up from the borrower. She yelled and screamed..... NO THANKS! Please re-assign!

Reply by HisHughness on 2/8/13 7:20pm
Msg #454883

What was your objection to letting the borrower examine documents in advance that he will be expected to sign, and which he will be given a copy of? This is befuddling to me. Under the same circumstances, you'd probably find the phone welded to your ear from the heat of my comments, and I would be on the phone to my loan officer telling him either I got the documents in advance or the loan was dead in the water and I would expect a check within the next 10 days for any funds expended.

In the thousands of signings I have done, I've never been instructed to keep the documents from the borrowers in advance. In fact, Quicken, the lender that I regard as the absolute best in the country from the perspective of coddling borrowers, sends them copies in advance by email.

Tell me what I'm missing here.

Reply by Jessica/FL on 2/8/13 7:22pm
Msg #454886

I always contact escrow and ask if it is ok to email the borrower the docs in advance. For security reasons I know some of my clients want to send them directly from the escrow office. In this situation, I would have contacted the client and asked them if it was ok to send the documents. Besides security issues I don't see why they couldn't see the documents in advance. It makes for a much faster signing.

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/8/13 7:20pm
Msg #454884

"She used to do it all the time..."

"Madam, thankfully I am not you."

Reply by BossLadyMD on 2/8/13 7:38pm
Msg #454891

yeah i would give that 'bird' back, not worth my sanity n/m

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 2/8/13 7:47pm
Msg #454895

Re: a NEW ONE --- turn in back to the SS/TC---

--- if they are going to be that ornery & antagonistic before you even get to the appointment, don't push your luck. Turn it back to the signing service. That borrower will make the signing really rough. And may flog you even more with the signing service after your done & gone. Save yourself the headache now.
As to emailing a copy to the borrower, ask the LO or TC to do it. My experience has been that the hiring party is the one to make that decision & it is they who should supply the advance copy to the borrower, if they even want them to have it before hand.
Hugh is right, the borrowers deserve a copy of the documents before hand but the copy should be supplied by the LO/lender, not the notary. Quicken is really great about supplying docs before the appointment. It would be super if the others did it as well, but they don't & I would guess they have their reasons.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/8/13 9:19pm
Msg #454914

They don't understand our role. i would have told them to

call the LO, who would be the person to email them docs prior to the signing appt. I've had several signings where the borrowers had seen the docs & Final HUD before I got there. I still review the entire pkg at the appt. I've learned to choose my battles & have them contact the LO for any issues.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/8/13 9:43pm
Msg #454917

Re: Hugh is correct!!!!!!!! n/m

Reply by walthtz on 2/8/13 10:48pm
Msg #454924

Ist of all, it is NOT the job of the Notary to send the documents to the BR before hand.
That is why there is a 3 day right of cancel & why you leave a copy with the BR after the signing.
2nd, I did that one time a couple of years ago for someone that gave me a real sob story.
Like a fool, I belived her. Then the punch line.
I got to the home at the appointed time & was told thanks for the copy, they had their own Notary do the work.
I then went back to the company that hired me & after I related the story, I was told that sending the BR a copy before hand is not my job & therefore I would not be paid for printing, trip fee & they would never call me again.
They have never called. Been 4 years.
Walt in NJ.

Reply by CJ on 2/8/13 10:59pm
Msg #454926

I'm sure learning a lot. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/8/13 11:43pm
Msg #454930

Walthtz is correct. Never give an advance copy of the docs to the borrower (or anybody else for that matter) on your own. This is part of the whole chain of custody deal. (Don't let them out of your sight before, during or after the signing and don't allow a borrower to make copies of signed docs). If they want an advance copy, they can ask their LO. However, if the borrower whines that his LO is a butthead and won't return calls, etc., or says they won't sign until they've had the docs a day ahead of time, etc., I'll inform the hiring party, who will either take care of it or authorize me to take care of it. Mostly, I stay out of it. Not my job; not my call.

In addition to the exact story Walt related, I also have heard stories from SSs that independent LOs/Realtors (aka Great White Sharks) have tried to get their hands on the docs before the signing so they can get them notarized for free by in-house notaries and cut out the NSA. It they don't ask the notaries themselves, they coach the borrowers to get them from the notary. Don't let this happen to you!

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 2/9/13 9:15am
Msg #454963

Don't those RE/LO realize that our fee is in the title co fee and their fee does not change even if they don't have to pay you?

Reply by HisHughness on 2/8/13 11:45pm
Msg #454931

Now, THAT'S a new one on me.

It isn't the job of the <notary> to send the documents. It IS the job of the signing agent to assist in any reasonable manner in getting a loan closed. Giving the borrowers a copy of the documents in advance certainly falls within those parameters. Like many other things out of the ordinary, it is best to keep title and lender in the loop. But that is frequently not possible -- weekend and nighttime closings usually preclude it. I think the borrower is entitled to the documents, and the last time I personally was involved in a refi, I was quite explicit that there would be no refi if there were no docs provided in advance. That one borrower acted in an underhanded manner is no reason to the many other borrowers who simply want to act wisely.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 2/9/13 1:07am
Msg #454939

hi Huge, just curious were the docs emailed to you or sent by currier?

Reply by HisHughness on 2/9/13 1:42am
Msg #454941

Emailed.

Reply by SharonMN on 2/11/13 2:57pm
Msg #455233

>> the last time I personally was involved in a refi, I was quite explicit that there would be no refi if there were no docs provided in advance

Hey, Hugh, I thought I was the only one that did that. I could see the bwr being quite explicit when the notary called to confirm that they needed to see the docs before the appt. As the notary, I would simply say that I would have to clear that with title/lender first, but I would certainly try to accomodate them.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/9/13 2:21am
Msg #454943

Gotta agree w/walthtz & goldgirl

While I certainly don't disagree with a B seeing/receiving docs before the appointment and, in fact, wish all lenders would do that, I also don't think it's our job or 'right' to send them. That the lender's call.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/9/13 8:16am
Msg #454953

Agree w/walthtz & goldgirl

Absolutely, I concur. The loan officer who usually receives the docs via email should take that responsbility. The HUD, the Note, TIL and DOT being the most critical documents could be scanned and sent encrypted. Happens all the time, if the borrower is so empowered.

As we all know, these docs usually pop out on the 13 hour and the LO wants them signed IMMEDIATELY and back in line for final approval and funding, so not a lot of play time wiggle room here.

Reply by Beverly Kinlaw on 2/9/13 6:19am
Msg #454946

Security issues and liability re "a new one"

SO - if a NSA did send docs to a borrower ahead of time and they were sent regular email with no security measures in place and if somehow in process email got "hacked, etc" and bo social sec no etc is used, bank account stolen from etc etc etc ---- would not the notary then be possibly liable and thus at risk for a serious law suit???

Reply by Barb25 on 2/10/13 9:37am
Msg #455034

Beverly here wins the big prize.

Aside from everything else. Unless sent by an encrypted email program... Most are not. They are being send unsecured. Why isn't everyone screaming GLBA.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/9/13 7:57am
Msg #454950

If borrower wants documents in advance to read, and you don't wish to provide them, escrow will. It's done all the time.

Sounds like this woman has some angst about her loan. Probably good idea you removed yourself from the assignment. She definitely took control of her loan process out of your hands.

Reply by Phil Mulberry on 2/9/13 9:37am
Msg #454968

Some of the services have specifically given instructions never to forward the email docs to the borrower due to security. I don't think anyone is saying the borrower shouldn't have the docs before the signing, but the manner in which they get them should be thru a secure network.

Reply by pat/WA on 2/9/13 11:27am
Msg #454976

I think its great when the borrowers receive the docs before the signing. Just not from Me. This is not my responsibility and I don't want the liability.