Posted by notarydi/CA on 2/20/13 8:22pm
Msg #456763

interesting conversation today...

my signing this morning.....

Borrower: Gee, It's nice to have a notary here this time around when we're signing these docs.
Me: Pardon me?
Borrower: Well, we refi'ed 10 months ago and the lender just sent us the docs and said 'just sign where your names are typed on the signature lines.' So, we did.
Me: So, you did not sign the docs in the presence of a notary?
Borrower: Nope. We asked the lender about the pages that we signed that had a place for the notary to sign and the lender said 'just sign, don't worry about it'. 'We'll fix the notary part when we get the docs back.'

Me: silence.....was at a loss for words

Reply by Karla/OR on 2/20/13 8:26pm
Msg #456765

Definitely a 'deer in headlights' kind of reaction! WOW! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/20/13 8:32pm
Msg #456767

Found the same thing at my ex-boss's office

correspondence to clients - "sign where indicated and return to us. Our notary will complete her part when we get the signed document back".

Oh, yeah - he's an attorney. Needless to say it didn't happen on my watch.

Reply by janCA on 2/20/13 8:35pm
Msg #456768

I hope they're not going with the same lender.

You can't tell me that lender didn't know it was illegal to notarize the signatures on the docs without the principals being present. It certainly would make me wonder what other illegal activity is going on with them???

Reply by Robert522TX on 2/20/13 8:39pm
Msg #456769

OMG...that company should be reported.
Hope they enjoyed every cent of whatever money they saved by not sending a qualified person to handle that signing!

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 2/20/13 10:25pm
Msg #456781

The sad part is the BO went along with it!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/20/13 10:33pm
Msg #456782

Easy enuff to do: Go to county recorder's office, pull up deed recorded 10 months ago.
Demand copy of notary's journal for event. Might be kinda fun to see if DOT was really notarized ... or if by some hinky lending rule, the refi didn't require notarizations .....? but that's had to imagine. Might have just been a HELOC? Some of those aren't notarized.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/21/13 12:00am
Msg #456788

GG's right... this is VERY easy to verify by pulling a copy of the DOT and requesting a copy of the notary's journal entries, assuming it was notarized.

Reply by 101livescan on 2/21/13 10:27am
Msg #456844

This could mean big trouble for the lender...the notary is in big trouble too. how can there be journal entries or borrowers' signatures for these entries? Is that loan invalid because of improper notarization...oh my. This LO could be subject to losing his license, penalties for fraud, as well as the notary...amazing....after all we've been through these past few years, still fraud abounds. Astounding.

Yet, I do know there are LOs out there who twist arms for backdating docs...I know of at least one SS in SC who does this on a regular basis with no hesitation. I'm sure there are others.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/21/13 11:09am
Msg #456854

" how can there be journal entries or borrowers' signatures for these entries? "

IF there is a notary seal on the deed of trust, by law there better be a corresponding journal entry. It's sooooo easy to get a copy of that journal entry. Again, by hte law the notary must respond within 15 days to the request witha copy of the journal entry or state that the entry doesn't exist.

From there... the notary could say that the journal was lost/stolen. Well, that's easily verified with the Secretary of State, since we're required to report that to them if that happens. If no journal entry exists, then that means somebody applied the seal/signature illegally... and the Sec of State needs to be notified.

And, if the notary does send a copy of the journal entry, it would be interesting to see if the borrowers signed it or not... among other things.

As crazy as CA laws are about journaling, this is one of those situations where the paper trail would be proof positive of any wrong doings.

Reply by ikando on 2/21/13 12:02pm
Msg #456889

It's great that California has so many notary rules and regulations in black and white. Unfortunately, if this had happened in Oklahoma, there may not have been any journal entry made. The law here does not require a journal entry, unless you're notarizing absentee voter ballots.

I had a situation where I traded in my car for a new vehicle. I commented, more than once, that the notary should ID me for the vehicle transfer from me to the dealership. I was poo-pooed and told they routinely have the notary stamp after the fact. Irked me to no end, but what can you do?

The problem is that people who don't know the law do things in ignorance because they've gotten away with it. Whether it's a notary or the general public, education is much needed, and I don't know how that can be accomplished.