Posted by Ronnie_WA on 2/12/13 5:26pm
Msg #455535

missing legal on DOT - WA notaries

There must be WA notaries that don't insist on having a complete document for notarization. The title companies always push back when I ask for the legal exhibit "incorporated herein by reference". They think my request is quite unusual. Its a shame we don't have a united presentation to the title companies so we wouldn't get that push-back. I don't care to acknowledge an incomplete document as my bond and E&O won't cover me in a worst case scenario. I don't fuss if they include a sworn affidavit where the principal authorizes title to subsequently attach the legal specifically without the need to re-acknowledge/notarize the DOT as some offices do.

Reply by Sha/CA on 2/12/13 6:19pm
Msg #455551

Not on the third page of the DOT? That is usually where I

find it. Do you think the APN and address are not sufficient enough legal description?

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 2/12/13 6:51pm
Msg #455565

Re: Not on the third page of the DOT? That is usually where I

Page 3 says, "the following described real property: see attached Exhibit A legal description incorporated herein by reference". Neither an APN or a street address constitute a legal description. The principal is executing the DOT with the purpose of encumbering the property described in that legal description.

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 2/12/13 9:24pm
Msg #455586

Do you have the ability to incorporate it yourself? It's a simple phone call to the clerk of court for us. I've never had one where the legal description wasn't attached as an exhibit from a TC. On docs that I draft (cash sales, mortgages, etc) I have to do the footwork to acquire the correct property description from clerk and I always reference the book and instrument number in the act following the property description. Not sure if WA allows y'all to do this or not though. Either way, I charge extra to the party for the service of acquiring and incorporating.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/13 9:33pm
Msg #455589

That would be UPL in any state but LA.. n/m

Reply by sueharke on 2/12/13 10:01pm
Msg #455594

Re: That would be UPL in any state but LA..

The description of the property is public record in CA and maybe in other states. Sometimes this information is available online from the country Assessor office. For tax returns, I frequently use this type of information when clients don't being property tax information or DMV car tag fees (Sacramento Country in CA or DMV statewide).

The same property tax information I find for clients is the same information I find in loan packages, so I think it is safe to say there would be no issue in my getting that information if absolutely necessary.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/12/13 10:05pm
Msg #455595

I also have no problem in finding in public records. n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 2/12/13 10:07pm
Msg #455596

Flashing fingers left things unsaid

But, it is not my job to include the legal description in the docs, on the mortgage. That is supposed to be there when it gets to me.

Reply by sueharke on 2/12/13 10:28pm
Msg #455600

Re: Flashing fingers left things unsaid

It is also the tax clients responsibility to give me the accounting records to prepare a tax return. Do I wait two weeks for the person to get back to me with their DMV information? Do I wait 3 weeks for someone to give me property tax information? It takes 5 minutes to get this info online, so why not know how to find it?

I admit it is highly unlikely there were be a return trip if this information was not in the loan package and it is not the responsibility of the notary to get the information. But knowing that this information is available online will allow the BO to find it if it is needed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/13 10:10pm
Msg #455597

I wouldn't do it as a notary.

Although I know how to do it from my former life, I would not take it upon myself to find a property description for the loan package. I won't be responsible for the accuracy for the exhibit on any lien instrument. Title has that in their search documents - they are the only ones who should be providing that.

JMO

Reply by VT_Syrup on 2/12/13 10:27pm
Msg #455599

The legal description might not matter too much on a refi, as long as it's for the right parcel. But it is critical for purchases. Being interested in mapping, I've looked at a fair number of legal descriptions for my property and some of my relatives. At least half of them are wrong. The buyer probably cares whether he's buying 3 acres vs. 4. The buyer might be disappointed if it turns out the trout stream the realtor said was on her land really isn't. I'm not going to be the one to find a wrong legal description.

Reply by sueharke on 2/12/13 10:32pm
Msg #455601

When we lived in Texas, all residential home sales had to have a survey with each sale (I was not a notary in Texas). At least the buyer then knows whether the trout stream is on the property he or she is buying

Reply by Jack/AL on 2/12/13 11:39pm
Msg #455605

I usually find the Exhibit A (legal description) at some point in the package. Sometimes, there are 3 or 4 copies of it, at random intervals.

Reply by janCA on 2/13/13 8:57am
Msg #455610

This goes beyond the scope of our responsibilities as notaries and SA's. Paul always used to tell us that the legal description did need to be attached to the DOT in order to make it a complete document and not to notarize unless it was there. But if it's missing, that goes back on title to come up with it. Contact them and let them know the circumstances.

This used to happen quite often "back in the day" (2004-2007). I've not seen it happen once on this second go-around, and I find many borrowers actually will read this to make sure it is correct, as on former refis their descriptions were wrong.