Posted by Delores Daugherty on 2/27/13 10:10pm
Msg #458326

out of state acknowledgments

I don't do out of state signings very often, but am I correct in believing that I do not need to add the California acknowledgment with the verbiage "under penalty or perjury" since it is not recording in this state, but the borrowers signed in my presence here in California.

Reply by Buddy Young on 2/27/13 10:34pm
Msg #458330

Any ack or jurat taken in California has to have spacific wording.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/27/13 10:40pm
Msg #458332

Follow YOUR STATE laws, not the out of state.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/27/13 10:52pm
Msg #458334

Here you go

Civil Code Section 1189 (from the 2013 Handbook):

(c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary public may complete any acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifcations not allowed by California law.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/27/13 10:40pm
Msg #458331

"Under penalty of perjury" has nothing to do with anything. If you are using an out-of-state ack, you need to be sure the certificate is not asking you to do anything CA notaries are not allowed to do, such as including capacity (i.e. husband and wife, trustee, president, etc.) and "personally known" and other possible certifications.

You can certainly use a CA ack in place of any out-of-state ack/jurat. I always do because I have no way of knowing (without time-consuming research) if the included ack is compliant with the state where it will be recorded. Then again, I'm not sure that's even my responsibility.

Just attach a loose leaf CA compliant cert if you want, and you'll be good to go.

Reply by Delores Daugherty on 2/28/13 12:08pm
Msg #458461

Thank you all for your much appreciated responses

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/13 10:53pm
Msg #458335

Re: out of state acknowledgments..I think you are

correct ...per your handbook, Page 10

"A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction, provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law."

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2013.pdf

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/27/13 11:27pm
Msg #458339

Not necesarrily... others have posted the relvent code... but you have to be careful because that doesn't mean you can just use any old wording because it it is being recorded out of state. First, note that it should be "required for filing" in that state first. That pretty much doesn't happen... a properly executed notarization done in another state is usually always accepted by that other state. In fact, CA has this written in to the law. They must accept notarizations done out of state, provided it was done in accordance with the law where it was done.

THEN, you have to be sure that it's not asking you to do something you can't do under CA nayway... such as cetrify capcity of the signer.

Another thing to remember is that the wording approved for use by CA notaries is done for a reason. It is there for the ntoary's protection. If you start using notarial wording drafted by other sources inside California, there *may* be some potential issues with that. All of that gets very detailed and confusing... and you are better off, in most cases always using the approved wording ofr use in CA unless you are specifically told otherwise, and only then if it doesn't require you to do something illegal. It's just prudent to avoid the potential pitfalls and questions...use the approved wording.

Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you *should* or that it is even in your best interests.

Reply by ananotary on 2/27/13 11:59pm
Msg #458350

So you disagree with the SOS and our handbook?

I think you are wayyy overthinking this. I will follow what the SOS allows me to do and K.I.S.S. JMHO

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/28/13 12:17am
Msg #458354

Re: So you disagree with the SOS and our handbook?

Nope... I go with exactly what it says. The handbook says that we *may* (not must or shall) complete the out of state acknowledgment only if it is "required" for filing and that it doesn't force us to certify anything we're not allowed to under CA law. That's exactly what I said above, and exactly what the handbook says, too.

That's a very specific set of circumstances to be able to use that alternate wording. It doesn't say, "Go ahead and use it if it's meant to go out of state," which is what a lot of CA seem to think it says.

It says we can if we want, *IF* those specific requirements are meant.

I've only seen those requirements met ONCE and I've only done it ONCE.

I don't go looking for trouble or ways out of things... I'd rather have the protection of the state laws where I'm commissioned, thank you very much.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 2/28/13 12:31am
Msg #458357

Not necessarily what ?

I never indicated a CA notary could use "just any old wording." I wrote: Because we (CA notaries) have no way of knowing what is compliant, AKA "required" in another state (without time-consuming research), it's best to use what we know is correct - a CA compliant certificate. I also wrote several times we are not allowed to certify capacity or do anything else that might be allowed in another state that isn't allowed in CA. And I never told anybody to go ahead and use an out-of-state ack just because they could.

What is it you're" not necessarily" agreeing with? And what are these '"potential issues" that it is prudent to avoid? Once again, we're going overboard here with pitfalls that are not even hinted at in code, which allows use of out-of-state certificates with no caveats beyond what is required in that jurisdiction and doesn't require CA notaries to certify anything we are not allowed to under CA law.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/28/13 12:44am
Msg #458359

Re: Not necessarily what ?

"What is it you're" not necessarily" agreeing with?"

Uhm, I was I was responding to Delores' post wherein she said, "am I correct in believing that I do not need to add the California acknowledgment with the verbiage "under penalty or perjury" since it is not recording in this state, but the borrowers signed in my presence here in California."

Reply by ananotary on 2/28/13 9:17am
Msg #458395

The answer to the OP is "Yes" since our SOS and handbook

CLEARLY tell us we **CAN** use out of state certs (with the already listed provisions). The rest is your "interpretations" and "reading between the lines".

KISS is just a simpler way of life....MHO, of course.