Posted by Bamberry/CA on 1/29/13 4:44pm
Msg #452973

CA - Identity of the Signer - Notarize or Don’t Notarize ???

Hi there,

Question regarding notarizing a document and regarding the section of “Verify the Identity of the Signer”, in the Handbook from the SOS/CA.

Example:
Name on CA/DL is: Michael Johnson Silversmith, Jr. and the document before me names Mike Silversmith. Do you notarize or not?

How much variance can there be between their ID which has the legal full name and the document before you with a name they want to sign as or the variance, maybe it’s from the bank mis-typed, who knows the reason, all I know is it isn’t an exact match? What’s ok and what’s not??? I am clear on knowing what fraud may be, the names clearly don’t match, if it’s a man’s name but a woman sits before me vice versa, or ID is Jake but the document names Adam, etc... BUT :

Examples below are of varying possibilities’ that you are presented on the document that they ask you to notarized :

Michael Johnson Silversmith
Michael Silversmith, Jr
Michael J Silversmith-Lee, Jr (last name has hyphen and another name linking)
Mike Johnson S. Jr
Mike J Silversmith
Mike J Silver
Mike S
Mikey Johnston Silvermith


These are just the few I came up with, I could probably make another 20 variations…

I have called around and of course the reason I’m given is they can’t give out legal advice or guidance. This also coming the CA/SOS office.

So I can have a more concrete cut and dry answer anyone have suggestions?

Also if possible help from CA notaries is much appreciated because I know other states have other requirements and procedures.

Thanks in advance for the help and support.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 1/29/13 5:16pm
Msg #452981

Re: CA - Identity of the Signer

As notaries we are there to identify the person(s) before us. In California, we're guided in this procedure by our Handbook. It tells us what is admissible ID.

Now, if that person before us has handed us an allowed-unexpired ID and if that ID photo and physical description match that person then we are able to notarize. Many times, the name on the ID will NOT exactly match the name on the document(s). And, that's ok. The name that goes on my notary certificate is the name on the ID. After all, that's the person whose ID I examined.

JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/13 10:29pm
Msg #453042

I like your answer. n/m

Reply by Taryn Askey on 1/29/13 5:38pm
Msg #452986

In the SOS (page 8) its states:

Satisfactory Evidence – “Satisfactory Evidence” means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the individual is not the individual he or she claims to be and (A) paper identification documents or (B) the oath of a single credible witness or (C) the oaths of two credible witnesses under penalty of perjury, as specified below:

If I feel that the person and the name are not one in the same, I refuse the notary. I have asked the person questions regarding the difference and if I feel they are telling the thruth, then I continue with the notary. Names haven been listed many ways in my experience, I just be sure to have them sign exactly as stated/typed on the doc, and that is the name that I put in my journal. (If the ID name is similar but not exact, I write it in the ID box with the number and exp date).

Reply by linda/ca on 1/29/13 9:48pm
Msg #453034

It appears you are referring to a signature/name affidavit. If so, the borrower is the one who determines which name(s) he is also known as (AKA). For example he probably is "Not" known as Mikey Johnston Silversmith, Mike S, nor Mike J Silver. If that is the case you have "him" draw one line through those names and initial. You are only notarizing his signature at the bottom of that document that is indicating the changes, if any. Those weird names some times show up when they are running a check for credit, etc.

Reply by Bamberry Notary on 1/29/13 10:20pm
Msg #453038

Thank you Linda . I am aware of the AKA signature/name affidavit document. I am talking in general terms, be it I am at a signing or just a simple notarization a customer called me for.

Reply by linda/ca on 1/30/13 1:46am
Msg #453068

Also, to get back to your original question that you made clear to me what you are asking, Yoli/Ca gave a good suggestion. I might add, however, that you can always try to cross-reference other ID that they hopefully have. Some of the latter names that you listed....that might be a problem.......

MHO

Reply by HisHughness on 1/29/13 10:38pm
Msg #453047

***you have "him" draw one line through those names and initial.***

You do that and a very large percentage of lenders will send you back out to re-sign a signature affidavit. The preferred method for dealing with incorrect names is to write above them: "I have never used the name Jack Enjkill." My experience also is that most lenders will want the borrower to sign using the incorrect configuraton.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/29/13 11:07pm
Msg #453053

My standard practice is to have the BO line through names never known as, and so state: never known as, followed by initials. I have never been asked to return and resign.

If John Jacob Jinkleheimer Smith has never been known as JJJ Smith, why would he indicate by signing thusly?

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/13 11:08pm
Msg #453054

**The preferred method for dealing with incorrect names is to write above them: "I have never used the name Jack Enjkill." **

Agree.

Reply by linda/ca on 1/30/13 1:32am
Msg #453067

"***you have "him" draw one line through those names and initial.***

You do that and a very large percentage of lenders will send you back out to re-sign a signature affidavit. The preferred method for dealing with incorrect names is to write above them: "I have never used the name Jack Enjkill." My experience also is that most lenders will want the borrower to sign using the incorrect configuraton."

You are wrong, Hugh, I have never had a lender send me back and that is because I do it the correct way. Do you just make stuff up to sound as if you speak with authority when you really don't have a clue? First I want to recognize that the OP made it clear that she was not referring to the signature affidavit, however, as mentioned....what has "always" worked for "me" is to have borrower(s) draw one line so it is noticeable what was corrected and initial it. On the remaining lines you can print any other name (for example exactly what is on driver license) if that name is not listed. Not, as you say, write the correct name above it; simply listing additional name(s) works every time!

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/30/13 9:28am
Msg #453083

My preferred method is to have the borrower's make a statement about the name, not to just line through. I think this is because I have run into so many people who just wanted to be clear about the situation so that it would not carry forward. That seemed to be the smoothest way to handle it, especially if they had problems in the past with credit reports listing that person. That gave them an opportunity to be heard and they did it with zeal.

They do not sign with the incorrect names.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/30/13 11:54am
Msg #453108

"Name on CA/DL is: Michael Johnson Silversmith, Jr. and the document before me names Mike Silversmith. Do you notarize or not?"

The question is, why would I not?

Here's the thing... there is NO requirement that the name on the ID actually match the name on the document. None. The only direction we are given, in the law is in regard to acknowledgments (and only acknowledgments, not jurats) where we are told that we must have "satisfactory evidence that the person in front of you is the person "described" in the document and who signed it.

It's the SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE rule, and is described in CA Civil Code 1185. It says, "“Satisfactory evidence” means the absence of information, evidence, or other circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the person making the acknowledgment is not the individual he or she claims to be..."

In other words... don't go hunting for reasons to refuse. Refusing a lawful request for notarization in CA when they present proper ID can get you in to big trouble with the Sec of State.

If you tell them, "Well, the document says 'Mike' and his ID says 'Michael' you're going to get glared at. Mike is a very common variation of Michael and is a "reasonable " (see the definition above) variation. Does the photo on the ID match the person in front of you? DO the signatures appear to be similar?

I would definitely notarize this guy's signature given the situation you describe, provided that was the whole of it and I was happy with his ID.

Don't over think it. Remember, you are NOT actually certifying that the guy named in the document *is* the guy signing. You're certifying (with an acknowledgment) that the person in front of you CLAIMS to have the authority/capacity to sign the document and that they have acknowledged signing said document. By completing the acknowledgment, you're saying that you're REASONABLY satisfied that they are the same person (see the definition above) based on the ID presented to you. There is no possible way that you can actually match names, nor are you expected to do so.