Posted by CJ on 1/6/13 10:41am
Msg #449154

Personal question regarding realtor law. Please help. :)

I am totally embarrassed to ask this question, but I know you people are law-abiding notaries of integrity, which I appreciate, and I need help.

We are trying to sell our mobile home “for sale by owner”. We have had no offers for a long time. A neighbor, Mike, said he would bring a friend by to see it. The friend was interested and then Mike told me that he required a $2,000 fee at the close of escrow because he found the buyer and he is going to handle the paperwork. I said I didn’t know he was a realtor. He said he is not, but he does this all the time. I asked if that was illegal and he said no. I don’t like the smell of this one bit. My husband is desperate to sell the house because we have been paying space rent on this empty mobile home for about a year, and it is a hardship, so he wants me to go forward with Mike. I don’t trust Mike one iota, but he refuses to give us the buyer’s contact info, and he insists that I send all the paperwork to him. I REALLY don’t need this to come back and bite me. I like to do things by the book. I mentioned this mess to a random realtor in conversation, and he told me that representing a buyer without being a realtor is totally illegal.

Question: Where is the actual verbiage of the law that says you must be a licensed realtor to accept a fee for representing a buyer? I am having trouble googling it. I want to drop-kick Mike out of my life. Thanks.

Reply by Roger_OH on 1/6/13 10:59am
Msg #449159

Suggest you talk with your local board of realtors regarding your situation; they can advise you whether this fellow is legit. But if you don't trust him, why get involved with him?

Trying to save by doing the sale by yourselves may sound good, but when faced with the actual intricacies of showings, the sale, and the ensuing paperwork, many folks find it's well worth the commission fee to get it done right. A realtor would also have the resources to steer more potential buyer traffic to you.

Good luck.

Reply by emilysigns on 1/6/13 11:01am
Msg #449160

I'm not a lawyer, but....WHAT?

You have no contract with this person. If the buyer likes it so much and really wants to buy it, he will likely be in contact, or so I would think.

I do not suggest you let someone under qualified, if qualified AT ALL to handle any type of transaction on my behalf, let alone the legal transfer of your property.

I don't like it. There is a lot involved with the transfer of a mobile home, including pre-qualification of the borrowers of the park. If this is not done properly, the park could sue you...any number of things could happen. The title may never be transferred properly.

Run.

Reply by emilysigns on 1/6/13 11:14am
Msg #449162

CJ- Please call this person. I know she can give you advice.

Elizabeth Alex
Member of the CA MHI

Cell: 714-402-0740
Ph: 714-916-0310

You can tell her that Emily Peters referred you, or not. It doesn't matter. She is a family acquaintance.

Good luck!

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/6/13 11:23am
Msg #449165

First of all, I would doubt that a mfg. home without

being attached to a piece of real property would be considered real estate.

However, be careful about someone selling a mobile home for you because if they don't file the right paperwork with the state, you'll still be on the books as owning it.

Don't even let the buyer do it. Y.o.u. do it. You'd be surprised how many buyers will not follow through to take care of the paperwork because there is a filing fee and a stamp required.

Reply by Edward Cooke on 1/7/13 10:28am
Msg #449303

Re: First of all, I would doubt that a mfg. home without

It would depend on the state's statutes; Louisiana, for example, allows mobiles to be "immobilized" by notarial act which transmutes it from being a (titled) movable to an immovable (part of the property).

Reply by 101livescan on 1/6/13 11:37am
Msg #449168

I've signed six transactions like this in the past four months. Since they are affordable, there are many opportunities here in Santa Barbara. Community West Bank in Goleta finances the purchases. A broker is ALWAYS involved and there is ALWAYS an escrow, the escrow agent makes sure the transfer happen with the DMV and the personal property statement is filed with the county for personal property assessment. I think this guess is a bully, and desperate, and he has no license to represent any one. There must be a realtor in town who will handle this for you. You're in CA. First American Title is the escrow agent who handles these transactions, I would certainly ask more questions and be properly represented. What he proposes is completely illegal.

Reply by Lori Shannon on 1/6/13 11:56am
Msg #449176

I am a Realtor. It is illegal for anyone who is not licensed to represent you in a RE transaction in CA. It is also against the rules to pay a commission of any kind to an unlicensed person. Many mobile homes are considered personal property and not real property like single family homes, etc., are. I would find a realtor that you trust and ask them to look into it. I am in San Diego and would be happy to help.

Do not trust this guy.. Your instincts are very correct.

Reply by Jacqueline Dyson on 1/6/13 12:05pm
Msg #449180

CJ, tell Mike that you are going to make sure the transaction is approved by the CA District Attorney Office before proceeding. What a crook!

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 12:19pm
Msg #449186

CA real estate laws says one must have a real estate salesperson's license, under a Broker in order to sell real property not their own. And to clarify: The agreement is not with the seller and the agent. It is with the seller and the Broker. The agent does the footwork, the Broker gets paid the commission from the seller and then the Broker splits that in some form with the agent.

A "realtor" is a real estate agent who paid a membership fee to belong to a "club" <so to speak>. It's a title ONLY. There are some added perks, however, the functions, duties, and responsibilities of a real estate salesperson (agent) vs. a realtor or no different.

Yes, what this neighbor, Mike is doing is ILLEGAL and I'd report him to the Dept. of Real Estate. Selling a mobile home is very different than selling real property. I'd find an agent whose expertise is dealing with mobile home sales and purchase.

I have an errand to run, but I will come back and pull out my R.E. books and give you specific information on mobile home sales and purchase. Like someone wrote, I do remember that there are papers to file with the DMV and another entity.

Reply by Jacqueline Dyson on 1/6/13 12:49pm
Msg #449191

Here is a contact for you:

John Mehl
916-224-3334
[e-mail address]

This guy is the is an expert and is the lead and founder of a very active network group of Real Estate Agents, Title Agents, Notaries, Investor's , etc.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/6/13 12:50pm
Msg #449192

CJ, PLEASE be sure you have a reputable person to represent you. This can turn into a nightmare (it did for Mom) who sold a mobile home in California through a realtor in 2009. All papers signed, everything looked good to us (we're out of state). It was still looking good in 2010 when the tax collector from SB County sent us a notice that taxes were deliquent and Mom had 10 days to pay them OR have a lien placed on the property. Ack! I phoned that office and told them the trailer had been sold a year ago and the new owner was responsible for taxes. She told me "as far as we're concerned you still own it and you owe the money."

What happened? In California you need a Mobile Home Tax Clearance Request Form properly executed. All outstanding tax bills must be paid with certified funds. You can't get the all important Mobile Home Clearance Certificate without the Tax Clearance so the money has to be paid. When you have the MH Clearance Cert you have to provide Proof of Sale to the Housing and Community Development Department.

It's a nightmare if you don't have someone handling this for you that can be trusted and knows what they're doing. Let my sad story be a learning experience for you, we were only able to untangle ourselves from this with threats to the realtor about the possibility of losing his license if he didn't get on it! Take heed, you can do it right the first time OR you will be forced to do it right the second time.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/6/13 3:34pm
Msg #449217

One thing to consider is if the mobile home was permanently placed or not. This is mostly for more of the manufactured type homes than anything... but there is a home in our neighborhood going though some issues that was a mobile home, but was placed on a permanent foundation and converted to a permanent fixture according to the permits and tax rolls.

Reply by leeinla on 1/6/13 1:32pm
Msg #449198

I am a realtor in CA. I am not an attorney so this is just my opinion. In CA someone can collect a Finder's Fee for introducing two people to complete a transaction . All they do is introduce the BUYER to the SELLER. it is illegal for them to fill out the paperwork regarding the transaction, you need a CA Real Estate License to do that. Find out what is the law regarding Finder's Fees in NJ. Did you discuss a Finder's fee with your friend. Finder's Fees should be put in writing and can be negotiated. Personally , your friend does not seem like a true friend. I would walk away. Hire a realtor.

Reply by Stoli on 1/6/13 2:27pm
Msg #449206

With all respect, leeinla, you may be wrong:

With all respect, leeinla, you may be wrong:

http://www.brewerfirm.com/articles/article-splits-kickbacks-fees.html

Are these commission splits, or referral fees, legal? What if they are labeled as "reimbursement of non-recurring closing costs," will that make a difference? Although these fee split arrangements are somewhat common and are often legal under California law, many people would be surprised to learn that they can be illegal under federal law in the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act ("RESPA")1.
A violation of RESPA carries the potential for up to a year in jail and a $10,000.00 fine for each involved party. Additionally an affected consumer can bring a civil action for damages three times the amount of any charge paid that violates RESPA, plus attorney fees and court costs. Authorities differ in their opinions of what does and does not constitute violations of either state or federal law. Also slight differences in the facts can affect the outcome. This article is a general discussion and is not intended to address any specific situation. It is best to stay on the conservative side, and if in doubt contact a knowledgeable real estate lawyer for guidance.

First let's examine State law. Under California law a broker can pay compensation only to another broker or to a duly licensed salesperson through the employing broker. Even if someone is otherwise entitled to a commission split, if they are unlicensed at the time the compensation is earned it is illegal to compensate that person. It is illegal for a broker to employ or compensate an unlicensed person for acts that require a license.

Reply by jojo_MN on 1/6/13 2:36pm
Msg #449207

After considering all of the other comments, there is one more issue for you. Taxes. Make sure you give him a 1099 because he will need to pay income taxes on the amount you give him. Remember, by law you have to report any more than $600 that you pay an individual for services provided. I'm not a tax accountant, but maybe you came claim that as an expense on your taxes also. JMHO

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/6/13 4:03pm
Msg #449221

CJ, I'm no expert on any of this, so I won't address the particular situation at hand. However, after reading most of the other comments, it seems to me that this is not your standard sale of a home. And even if it were, you don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish! Some situations beg for an expert to be involved and trying to sell this on your own may be a big mistake. A qualified real estate agent may be able to bring you lots of other interested parties and might even have advice for you to do to help increase the sales price on the property. You might even find out you end up coming out ahead of the game.

Best of luck!

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 5:17pm
Msg #449237

From My R.E. Law and Escrow Books

Mobile Homes
The Dept. of Housing and Community Development (HCD) registers and licenses mobile homes, and must be notified by anyone acquiring or releasing an interest in mobile homes within ten days after a sale. A copy of the registration will then be provided to all lien holders. Both the buyer and seller must sign a certificate of title, which transfers ownership of the mobile home owned as personal property.

If the mobile home is real property, a clearance of tax liability must be signed by the county tax collector. To comply with the law, certain requirements must be met when a manufactured (mobile) home is sold in CA.

Escrow Requirements to Transfer Ownership in Manufactured Home:

(1) In most cases, an escrow must be used.
(2) A notice of escrow opening must be filed with the Housing and Community Development Dept.
(3) The legal owner and any junior lien holders must receive a demand for statements of lien release or assumption.
(4) A demand for a tax clearance certificate must be sent to the county tax collector.
(5) If a part of the consideration is for accessories, that part shall not be released until the accessories are actually installed.
(6) The escrow holder may not be an agency under the Dept. of Corporations in which the manufactured home dealer or seller holds more than 5% ownership interest.
(7) If the manufactured home is to be permanently installed on a foundation, it becomes real property. In that case, the registration requirements and other escrow requirements change. A document showing delivery and placement on a foundation must be given to the escrow holder for recording upon close of escrow.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 5:32pm
Msg #449240

Part 2

Part 2 - Mobile Homes

Special rules apply to mobile homes. A mobile home on a foundation may be either a fixture or personal property, depending on whether or not it has been affixed to the real property. If a mobile home is considered personal property, it must be licensed and registered as a motor vehicle and sold by a licensed mobile home dealer (not a real estate agent). In addition, its sale will be subject to sales tax laws. On the other hand, if a mobile home is considered a fixture, it will be taxed as part of the real property and its sale is subject to the requirements of the real estate law.

CA Health and Safety Code 18551 states that for a mobile home to be considered affixed to real property, more than mere attachment to a foundation is required. Instead, to make a mobile home part of the real property, the owner must do the following:

(1) Obtain a building permit that shows written evidence of ownership of the underlying land, or proof of a lease for more than 35 years
(2) Proof that there are no liens against the mobile home, or that if there are, that the lienholders consent to the attachment to real property
(3) Plans and specifications by the mobile home manufacturer or signed by a licensed CA architect, that detail the installation of the individual mobile home
(4) Obtain a certificate of occupancy

CA law looks to the intent of the annexor; obtaining the required documents demonstrates the owner’s intent to annex the mobile home to the property. Affixation status is permanent as of the day the certification of occupancy permit is issued. The affixation must be recorded in the county where the real property is located, to provide constructive notice to anyone who might acquire an interest in the real property in the future.

Once installed as a fixture, the mobile home cannot be removed without the consent of all parties who have an interest in the real property. The mobile home owner must vie the Dept. of Housing and Community Development 30 days notice of intent to remove, and proof of consent of all concerned parties.

Hope all this info helps....and don't be embarrassed to ask this question...it's something we can all learn about.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 6:06pm
Msg #449243

Re: Part 2 - typo fix

Sentence should read: The mobile home owner must give the Dept. of Housing and Community Development 30 days notice of intent to remove, and proof of consent of all concerned parties.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 6:05pm
Msg #449242

Activities Requiring a R.E. License

From "California Real Estate Law" Rockwell Publishing, Page 215

Activities Requiring a License

The Real Estate Law sets forth a list of activities that require a real estate license. Anyone who engages in any of the following activities, for compensation or the promise of compensation, is considered to be acting as a real estate broker and must be licensed:

(1) Sells or offers to sell, buys or offers to buy, real property
(2) Solicits prospective sellers or purchasers of real property
(3) Solicits or obtains listings of real property
(4) Negotiates the purchase, sale or exchange of real property
(5) Leases or rents, or offers to lease or rent, real property
(6) Solicits tenants or negotiates for the purchase, sale or exchange of leases
(7) Sells, buys, leases, or otherwise negotiates or offers to negotiate the purchase, sale or exchange of mineral, oil, or gas property
(8) Sells, buys, leases or otherwise negotiates or offers to negotiate the purchase, sale, or lease of a mobile home that has been legally registered

Anyone who engages in any of these activities on behalf of a broker is considered acting as a real estate salesperson and must also be licensed. A person selling their own property is exempt. While not exhaustive, the list shown above illustrates the range of situations and circumstances that require a real estate license. It’s important to remember that a license is needed to perform any of these acts even if the promised compensation is never actually paid. If someone promised to give you a boat in exchange for listing his property, the licensing requirements will still apply to you even if he later reneges on that promise

Reply by jba/fl on 1/6/13 6:11pm
Msg #449244

Sounds to me Mike is the interested party. Wants his discount also.....

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/6/13 8:56pm
Msg #449268

Could very well be.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 1/6/13 9:50pm
Msg #449276

Re: I used to sell Manufactured homes

CJ,

I used to sell manufactured homes in my former job..I know Ohio is different than Ca..In Ohio it is not that difficult to sell a home. It is titled like a car..The seller has to take the tax forms to the county auditor office and have the taxes paid then you get a tax stamp. Proving this..Then the transfer can occur..

I used to obtain bank financing for people for these homes again the paperwork is not much different than a car loan..I did the "closing" as well. Not much to them..But if the home was in a park then they have their own rules as to whom is buying a home..Ours did a background check etc and the perspective buyer had to pass!

If this Mike character shows up with a buyer he want his buyers fee..Did you agree to this before hand?? If not I would run..run and keep running..Yes it sounds like you are desperate and desperate people do desperate things..Please go with your gut instinct..and go with a RE agent that can handle this correctly..They will get a commission but at least you would know its done correctly! I have dealt with people just like Mike..they are in it to make a quick buck for themselves....Good luck!

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/6/13 10:28pm
Msg #449279

Re: I used to sell Manufactured homes

And Mike will be nowhere to be found when there are problems/issues. Notice that I said *when* instead of *if*. CJ can expect a train wreck if Mike is involved in the transaction.

Reply by CJ on 1/6/13 11:34pm
Msg #449282

THANK you to EVERYONE who answered!

I was afraid that everyone was just going to tell me what an idiot I was (. . . am). BUT, I needed input and I got it!

My husband thinks this is a hardship, but I think a illegal, rip-off mess would be much worse. I am busy enough with my notary work that we are able to keep our heads above water, so I'm not THAT worried about keeping it on the market a little longer.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I knew I wanted out of this, but I did not know how. Now I have a lot of good ideas: attorneys, real-estate agents, and I already knew about park approval (which Mike never bothered to get anyway, though I told him about it), and a bona-fide escrow company.

I am VERY happy to know that there are stiff penalties for this behavior - I like the DA idea and of course, the 1099 (it's not going to get that far anyway).

Thanks again. I read EVERY ONE of these responses, and the PMs too. I will check back in case someone else has something to say. I feel empowered!

Thank you so much.