Posted by NC_Closer on 1/17/13 6:55pm
Msg #450919

Signing Agent changing the fee

I hired a signing agent to handle two signings yesterday. 3:00 & 4:30. The docs came in for the 3:00 and completed. Due to late docs, the 4:30 was moved to 6:30. The signing agent advised that her fee increased $50 for closings that occur after 5:00. (The sigining location was 2.1 miles from her home). I declined to pay the additonal fee.

I have worked for too many companies to count over the past 10 years. Once I accept an assignment, I have NEVER attempted to renegotiate the agreed fee due to package size, type of loan or if the time gets pushed if I failed to get the specifics in advance. (Albeit there have been times I have had to turn back assignments if I can no longer accomodate a new time or location or negotiated an additoinal fee if separate signing locations are needed)

Reply by walthtz on 1/17/13 6:59pm
Msg #450920

Hi
Sometime I will re-negotiate the fee when I see the package & find out that is 75 more pages than expected. Most of the time the scheduling agent has no idea the size of the package.

Reply by ToniK on 1/17/13 7:04pm
Msg #450921

Well that agent runs their own business their way. You have two options 1) find someone else or 2) try to negotiate with that agent.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/17/13 7:12pm
Msg #450922

I renegotiate fees all the time

Time, effort and costs of doing business have a value.

Working after 5 PM might mean that the NSA's evenings are more valuable to her than day signings. Maybe the NSA has to pay for child care after 5 PM.
Some NSAs charges lesser fees for non-prime time assignments to fill up their day, while charging prime fees for prime times.

I don't quite understand the nature of this post (are you just venting?), but I also don't understand why YOU don't renegotiate fees for changes in the verbal contract?
When expecting a 80-120 page regular refi package to be signed at 1 PM, and you find out it's a 200 page construction loan that must be signed at the airport at 10 PM, why would you not renegotiate a commensurate fee?

Reply by MikeC/TX on 1/17/13 7:42pm
Msg #450923

You changed the conditions of the deal

by pushing the assignment back 2 hours. Granted, it was not your fault that the docs were late, but this signing agent suddenly had her calendar changed.

The idea that signing agents are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs and waiting for the work to show up - regardless of what time was originally agreed to - seems to be a commonly held misconception by those who broker assignments.

YOU changed the deal, and you need to be willing to renegotiate the price if necessary. There could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for why she charges more after 5PM, but reasonable or not, that's her policy. Either pay the additional amount, negotiate an amount you can live with, or find someone else to do the job.

Reply by dgd/CA on 1/17/13 7:58pm
Msg #450927

This offends me. this should offend evey NSA... n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/17/13 8:16pm
Msg #450930

I completely agree with NC Closer

<<<I have worked for too many companies to count over the past 10 years. Once I accept an assignment, I have NEVER attempted to renegotiate the agreed fee due to package size, type of loan or if the time gets pushed if I failed to get the specifics in advance.>>>

BINGO!!! I don't renegotiate fees either. If the scheduler truly doesn't know all of the specifics, that's what a fee schedule is for and it should be offered up front during the initial phone call. A fee schedule covers the type of loan (purchase, refi or reverse), number of loans (1st and 2nd) , size of package (x number of pages), travel distance (x number of miles included, additional fee for distances over x miles), time of day/night, with or without fax backs, etc.

The only call back the scheduler will get from me is if the signing discussed is not the edoc file received.

Me: You stated the signing is THIS for a fee of $XXX. Instead, the edoc file I received is actually THAT and THAT fee will be $XXX.

Scheduler: Well, you agreed to $XXX and that's what we'll pay.

Me: You stated the signing was THIS...the edoc file I actually received is THAT. Therefore, the charge is commensurate with the type of assignment. If your company doesn't accept THAT then find another notary.

Scheduler: Ok, well....we'll catch you on the next one.

Me: Sure you will....have a nice day <click>

I do the same for GNW - repeat back to the caller what they SAY - i.e. "Since you SAY you're the only signer and you SAY there are only two documents, the fee, including travel for ONE signer and TWO documents is $XX. Many seasoned posters on this board SHOULD have enough loan signing experience and business accumen to know the variables that should be included in a fee schedule. Based on some of the recent threads....I'm beginning to wonder.

Reply by dgd/CA on 1/17/13 8:31pm
Msg #450938

Like... couldn't find the "button" n/m

Reply by ToniK on 1/17/13 9:39pm
Msg #450951

Re: I completely agree with NC Closer

The additional fee was because of this: I hired a signing agent to handle two signings yesterday. 3:00 & 4:30. The docs came in for the 3:00 and completed. Due to late docs, the 4:30 was moved to 6:30. The signing agent advised that her fee increased $50 for closings that occur after 5:00. (The sigining location was 2.1 miles from her home).

I dont care if the signing was right next to my home. We agreed on an original time of 430pm. Cuz docs arrived late and now you want another time which could mean, Im already out, I have another signing, I have to run back to print and head back out...yes the fee can changed becuase the original order changed. There was no issue with the specifics. Not the agents fault the docs arrived late. Either you have someone else to do your closing or you can negotiate. Its business. You run yours your way and everyone else runs theirs their way. Dont get mad cuz another business doesnt run the same as yours.

Reply by NC_Closer on 1/17/13 9:59pm
Msg #450952

Re: I completely agree with NC Closer

"cuz"? Nice.

Reply by NC_Closer on 1/17/13 10:04pm
Msg #450953

I declined to pay, offered to find someone else and she

Accepted the initial fee. Guess her business model was not that written in stone.

Reply by ToniK on 1/17/13 10:11pm
Msg #450955

well arent you so lucky n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/18/13 11:20am
Msg #451012

Really?

You are complaining because "her business model was not that written in stone" but yours IS?

Yes, renegotiating fees once the original verbal order has changed IS an acceptable business practice for most business, not just the mobile signing business.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/18/13 2:40am
Msg #450975

Totally agree with ToniK

"Im already out, I have another signing, I have to run back to print and head back out..." Yep!!

A two-hour time change can play havoc with a schedule. Who knows what hoops that notary might have had to jump through to accommodate that time change. There are all kinds of permutations and examples of how late docs can cost us. The lack of consideration for the notary's time and any other commitments they might have is one of the things that sour me on some companies. Plus, what if the notary had already turned down other appointments for the 4:30 slot?

NC Closer's attitude seems pretty cavalier to me... I realize that these situations are often outside of the control of the person who hires us, but how you deal with it speaks volumes. And of course, that does work two ways. If a person has a policy to increase fees by $50 after a certain time (especially that close to an appointment time) or if documents are late, I agree that it should be disclosed up front.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/17/13 10:31pm
Msg #450957

***Once I accept an assignment, I have NEVER attempted to renegotiate the agreed fee***

And you are presenting this as an advantageous principle that other NSAs should follow? Don't worry about checking behind you; there's nobody following.

Your principle is that you don't renegotiate. The agent's principle is that she charges extra after dark. So you don't renegotiate the fee, and the agent doesn't have to do an after-dark closing. Problem solved.

The list of things that I regard as legitimate reasons for seeking a fee renegotiation is as long as the number of things about a closing that can change from the original hiring understanding. Works for me, and seems to work for my clients.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/18/13 12:25am
Msg #450970

"(The sigining location was 2.1 miles from her home)"

This is that part I'll comment on because it's the bit that sticks out to me the most... and is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's really presumptuous to assume distance based on a "home" address. You have no idea from or to where are person may be traveling on any given day.

Is that "2.1 miles" based on a zip code search? Heh... that happens to me all that time. I hear, "But it's only 3 miles way!" Uhm.... not it may not be. Why do you assume that I sit on my butt all day watching TV waiting for the phone to ring? A lot of signing companies have that attitude. But also, zip code searches are EXTREMELY inaccurate for some areas, especially rural areas whre zip codes cover hundreds of square miles, and locations in the same town and zip code may be an hour apart from each other. In larger cities this isn't as much of an issue, but for those of us in rural areas, it's a major headache.


So yeah.... comments about distance from my home tend to tick me off. Here's an example. Maybe I'm not even home!! Maybe I'm an hour from home and have several appointments that way, and decided to stay the night at my Mom's house and visit her instead of drive home? Because of that I also scheduled a medical appointment the following morning in town, because my doctor is in that town. But no, I get a call and am told, "But it's right near your house!!" If you want me to rearrange my schedule, cancel an appointment, etc., to take an appointment and drive an hour to get there, you're going to pay for it... it doesn't matter WHERE it is.

As for late docs? I don't "renegotiate" fees... but I let people know up front that if docs are late, they're paying a late doc fee.

Reply by ikando on 1/18/13 2:28pm
Msg #451062

Marian, you are absolutely right about locations. My profile lists my PO box, or my husband's office as my location. Both are on opposite ends of the triangle from where I work from home, so neither is "only" a few miles from where I am at any point in the day. And the zips quoted often are for small towns' centralized post offices, include rural addresses, and can cover many miles.

On the note of "after 5:00" having an extra fee, in my experience for most office employees, 5:00 is quitting time. After hours is personal time, and may be filled with happy hour or family obligations. If a person agrees to a certain time, calculates that if all pieces flow as they would normally, the odds that they've made plans for after hours are high. I would hazard to guess that the employees of the hiring party would expect overtime if they were requested to do something that cut into their personal time. Why should an NSA be expected to just eat it?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 1/18/13 11:21am
Msg #451014

If you are a SS, why do you also have a notary listing? n/m

Reply by CH2inCA on 1/18/13 1:07pm
Msg #451037

Curious, how much was the original fee?

I can see that I'd schedule back to back signings with the same company, thinking the docs would all flow properly and labeling dropping and such would be much like a consitant looong job. I might price the second job a little bit lower..

Ah but then you throw a kink in the deal, wait for the docs, adjust times, different drop times..
nope that just became an individual stand alone job. Prime rates apply.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/18/13 1:47pm
Msg #451043

Re: Curious, how much was the original fee?

" I might price the second job a little bit lower.."

Why would you do that? Only if the same property and a 2nd or Heloc, etc. But to standardize something like you suggest does not compute with me. All jobs stand alone and each job has its own P&L statement. Only then can you analyze properly where you might have gone wrong on the pricing, etc.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/18/13 6:04pm
Msg #451089

Re: Curious, how much was the original fee?

I soooo agree! I can't count how many times I've had two assignments nicely fall into the same geographical area at about the same time - rejoice!!! - only to have some kind of delay or cancellation with one of them. Besides, that kind of serendipity should fall to YOUR benefit, not the vendor's. I can't think of any other business that would do that kind of a discount. Do you think the cable company or plumber will discount their fee if it looks like they'll have two jobs close together in time and distance? The subject would probably never even come up. And if a homeowner asked for that, they'd probably think they were nuts...

Reply by JulieD/KS on 1/20/13 9:58pm
Msg #451339

If the signing is delayed because docs don't arrive, I do charge more.....but I tell the company UP FRONT that if docs are late and the appointment is delayed, I will charge more. I'm a businessperson and what I sell is my knowledge and my time. If they are going to waste a couple of hours of my time when I could be earning money elsewhere, they will be paying extra to compensate me for the delay.

Why is it that people think a notary's time is not worth anything? If you allow them to think this way...they will not value your time.
I value my time and I charge accordingly.