Posted by DHartley_PA on 1/4/13 2:20pm
Msg #448878

borrower dated the note and lender won't accept

The borrower dated the note and addendum to note and the lender will not accept it. What??
Anyone ever hear of this? They want me to go back and have him re-sign without the date and they are deducting the fedex fee from my payment. Never heard of such a thing.

Reply by JinCA on 1/4/13 2:24pm
Msg #448879

There is at least one lender that absolutely does not want dates on the Note. I have always gotten specific instructions ,when this is the case, to make sure borrowers do not date the Note.

Reply by CentralNY on 1/4/13 2:25pm
Msg #448880

if the note doesn't require a date why did he date it. there is only one lender that comes to mind that dates a note.

Reply by DHartley_PA on 1/4/13 2:26pm
Msg #448882

A lot of borrowers want to put the date when they sign things. My instructions did not mention anything about dating docs.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/4/13 2:30pm
Msg #448883

If it doesn't say "date" then do NOT date it. Period. I've had borrowers accidently start to date it, and I it switch it out with their copies immediately.

Reply by CentralNY on 1/4/13 2:31pm
Msg #448884

if there is no date required, why? i never have them date something that doesn't require one.

Reply by DHartley_PA on 1/4/13 2:33pm
Msg #448885

I don't see anything wrong with borrowers wanting to date docs they sign. It has never been a problem until now. The lender is Citibank. I've done tons of Citibank closings and this has never been an issue.

Reply by CentralNY on 1/4/13 2:57pm
Msg #448892

well you met a processor or tc that won't

accept it this time, it happens. plead your case.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/4/13 5:39pm
Msg #448933

I have a done couple of Citibank through LSI and

there are always specific instructions in the signing instructions from Citibank that the Note is NOT to be dated. This is the only lender I've seen that from. Not sure which TC you had yours through - were the Citibank instructions in the package?

I did a Quicken today and the date was pre-printed on the signature lines for both the Note and the DOT.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 1/6/13 8:19pm
Msg #449264

Just because a signer wants something does not mean they

get it. You as a signing agent need to take control and and let them know, to follow your instructions. They should not be allowed to date documents, because it feels right to them. They need to get over themselves and let you do your job.

Reply by JinCA on 1/4/13 2:37pm
Msg #448888

It was Citibank. I remember now.

Reply by Mary Voelker on 1/9/13 12:39pm
Msg #449626

Basic legal document knowledge acquired in the California escrow business: lenders do not like dates on notes, since the interest can then begin on that date. Never had dates on notes until the 1990's, when document preppers started to uniformly date everything. Ad from 1987 in the LA times: 'UNDERWRITERS NEEDED - NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY"

Reply by Mary Voelker on 1/9/13 12:40pm
Msg #449627

Basic legal document knowledge acquired in the California escrow business: lenders do not like dates on notes, since the interest can then begin on that date. Never had dates on notes until the 1990's, when document preppers started to uniformly date everything. Ad from 1987 in the LA times: 'UNDERWRITERS NEEDED - NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY" with "will train" in small case.
Had the ad turned into t-shirts for my escrow team - hilarious!

Reply by CarolF/NC on 1/4/13 3:28pm
Msg #448897

Can someone in the business tell me how this invalidates the note? Isn't that the point?
I feel for you. I'm tired of fixing all their mistakes and trying to guess what they want on docs depending on who lender/processor/TC is and here you just have a date, which as far as my little knowledge extends, does not invalidate anything and they want the SA to eat the time, mileage and ship back expense. And our fees keep getting smaller and smaller. Just my rant. Just not fair.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/4/13 3:55pm
Msg #448902

There is a lot more to the reasons a lender or loan processor or title co, etc. may need or want something done or not done than meets the eye. And it's not up to us to second guess them.

When it comes to signing loan docs, the old saw about "better too much than too little" does not apply. Our job is to give them what they want - no more, no less. This is a good rule of thumb for signatures, too. From time to time, you may get away with an exception to this rule - even frequently - but it's likely to catch up with you sooner or later. This isn't easy when dealing with borrowers and their wide variety of preconceived ideas about how the world works. However, I would have been among those who asked the borrower to re-sign that page if they added a date that wasn't indicated - especially on one of the critical docs, which would of course include the Note.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/4/13 4:02pm
Msg #448903

Carol, it's not necessarily about invalidating the note...

It's about following the rules! If it doesn't specifically say "Date" it doesn't get dated. If the paper doesn't get swapped out, then we're not following the rules. The same goes for the number of RTC's we have them sign. If there's 10, each borrower will sign 10 plus two each for the borrower's package.

Reply by SharonMN on 1/4/13 4:08pm
Msg #448904

Re: Carol, it's not necessarily about invalidating the note...

Note doesn't need to be notarized (unless you're in VA), so I would just have the lender send it to borrower to re-sign.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/4/13 4:42pm
Msg #448912

Nobody said anything about notarizing the note....

I have seen notes that required notarization and they weren't in VA or for a VA property. As for me, I don't tell the lender to have them resign. It's the responsibility of the person who made the mistake to correct it.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 1/4/13 5:03pm
Msg #448919

Re: Carol, it's not necessarily about invalidating the note...

I know I'm just saying that it seems minor. To me it's like companies that want initials on all pages and don't tell you or put a spot for them. My point was they are asking a SA to incur a lot of expense for what doesn't seem like a relevant error. And yes why can't borrower sign without a notary. How many times are we catching their errors. Just seems like they could give a PASS on this one.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 1/4/13 5:27pm
Msg #448928

Carol, how long have you been a notary?

Again, it's what they want. This may seem like a thankless business to you. If so, why did you get commissioned? We have to give good customer service or somebody else will get the job. I occasionally will talk to the SS about something that I think is ridiculous. For example, I had a signing for an investment property on Christmas Eve at 3 PM. SS wanted faxbacks. So, I told the scheduler that I could get it out in time so that they could get it on 12/26. They agreed that if I could do that, and not have to fax back. It worked for me.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/4/13 5:35pm
Msg #448932

Re: Carol, how long have you been a notary?

***This may seem like a thankless business to you. If so, why did you get commissioned?***

I did not get commissioned to perform pointless tasks -- and let me point out that the issue in this thread does not pertain to anything for which a commission is required. I expect the same level of consideration from the people who hire me that I give them in trying to make the process work smoothly. That means that if I can correct THEIR errors easily and without hassle, I do so. Likewise, it means that if they can correct MY errors easily and without hassle -- such as mailing a note to the borrower rather than requiring me to deliver it, or even overlooking an extraneous date -- they do so.

Reply by CarolF/NC on 1/4/13 5:46pm
Msg #448934

Thank You Hugh n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 1/4/13 5:29pm
Msg #448929

My rule:

***If there's 10, each borrower will sign 10 plus two each for the borrower's package.***

Borrower signs two copies for himself, one for packet; any other copies go in the shredder, absent SPECIFIC instructions to have the borrower sign more than three copies of the RTC. Not instructions that the borrower signs everythng in the package: Specific instructions on the RTC.

Reply by Buddy Young on 1/4/13 10:45pm
Msg #448992

Re: My rule:

If there is a place for a date, I have the borrowers date. If there is not a place for a date, don't date.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/4/13 4:36pm
Msg #448910

He could sign it without you.

Sometimes, I wonder how much SSs know about the work that they are contracting on.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/4/13 4:43pm
Msg #448913

BrendaTX & SharonMN are correct. Don't need a notary. n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 1/4/13 6:39pm
Msg #448946

That's correct, but they are paying Dhartley/PA to do the

job they contracted with her to do correctly. That means sucking it up, going back, getting the page signed correctly and returning it to them. Unfortunately, some lessons are from the school of hard knocks.

Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 1/4/13 5:35pm
Msg #448931

This is very basic. If it says "date" - the signer dates it. If there is no date request printed (either in the instructions or on the document) then the signer does not date. It is not for us to decide what is to be done, or not done. Follow the documents.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/4/13 7:41pm
Msg #448952

Sometimes I wonder if we all live on the same planet

*** It is not for us to decide what is to be done, or not done.***

I've been doing this for 10 years now. There have been many times when I look up from the next document to be presented after the borrower says, "Oops. I dated this [note, deed, whathaveyou]. I didn't instruct the borrower to date the instrument; to the contrary, he was told that if it asks for a date, he has to date it; if it doesn't ask for a date, it's just like me on Saturday nights: No date.

That's why the borrowers say "Oops."

I saw nothing in the original post that indicated the NSA told the borrower to date the note. Why would you assume that she had, which is implicit in your phrasing "It is not for us to decide what is to be done, or not done."

Reply by desktopfull on 1/4/13 6:28pm
Msg #448943

I have 2 companies that have in bold type "Do Not Let Borrower Date Note," and they won't pay until you go back and get the page re-signed without the date.

Reply by Linda/OH on 1/4/13 6:47pm
Msg #448948

I specify to the borrower to "sign or sign and date" for each page I present. If there is not date under the line do not have them date it... just that simple. The borrower doesn't know, it's your job to tell them what they need to do.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/4/13 8:44pm
Msg #448967

I either say to the borrower for each page, "Sign here, date here" or "Sign only, no date".

Reply by Karla/OR on 1/4/13 8:54pm
Msg #448969

Just asking, if the notary realizes the NOTE was dated in error, could the date not have been lined through once and initialed by the BO??? Or do you HAVE TO use the BO's copy to fix it???

After the journaling and oath, I stop to make sure I have their attention, and then go over signing Do's and Don'ts before I even bring the package out of the envelope. This way they are not distracted with the pile of docs sitting in front of me. I say ONLY date if it says date and don't if it doesn't. Guess I have been pretty lucky with that so far.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/5/13 12:11am
Msg #449002

Just me - but I like "clean" notes, mortgages, TIL's, etc., so I always switch when I can. If they louse up both forms, then then single line through followed by initials.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/5/13 8:36am
Msg #449016

No, the note cannot be altered..

IME there could never be ANY changes to the note at the table. Anything that needed to be changed/fixed would require an entire new note be printed.

JME

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/6/13 3:24pm
Msg #449215

Re: No, the note cannot be altered..

I think she was talking about a date on the signature line - not the actual date on the Note. At least I hope that was the case! That was the subject of this whole thread.