Posted by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 12:28pm
Msg #451182

so-cal signings have struck my last nerve!

CC:  The signing company wants to blame the notary for the signing not being completed last night.  Where it was the signing company that would not respond to the notary and would not return her phone calls or emails and would not answer the afterhours line in addition to the fact that they never sent me the docs so I just wanted you to know I do not like my name being slung through the mud. The notary is not at fault for the signing not being completed last night. I received 3 emails from them last night and not 1 of them have the docs attached to it.and more than 15 today. Now because they can't get a hold of Title they are telling me they don't want to pay for the 70 miles I had to drive to print docs that were never sent.
You see signing companies make mistakes all the time and they constantly blame it on notaries and I am so sick of that.  I am so tired of notaries in general taking the brunt of the blame just so the signing company can continue raking in the bucks. But we're left by the wayside. Because they think notaries are a dime a dozen. That is rude and inconsiderate.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/19/13 12:34pm
Msg #451183

Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

"Now because they can't get a hold of Title they are telling me they don't want to pay for the 70 miles I had to drive to print docs that were never sent."

What does this mean? Why did you have a 70 mile drive to print? Am I misunderstanding or is something missing here?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/19/13 12:37pm
Msg #451184

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. If there were no docs to print, why is a 70 mile drive involved?

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 1/19/13 12:42pm
Msg #451186

Yeah, there is something more going on here ...

do you have a full-time job where you use your employer's computer/printer to print the docs?
or, because you had not received the docs before leaving for other signings, you had to drive 70 miles back home to wait for the docs and then print?

This just doesn't make sense -- you shouldn't expect to get paid for driving/printing documents that were never sent and thus never printed ...

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 12:56pm
Msg #451189

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

I received a call at 7:25 p.m. just as I was entering my son's military banquet I asked them if the docs were ready they said yes. I stated my fee and they said they will call me back to confirm if that fee was approved. do I get a voicemail message that my fears been approved and could I possibly call back to confirm the signing. So I immediately call back and confirm the signing. So I said okay I will be able to go around 10 o'clock because I'm at a banquet right now. They said fine. So if docs are ready I'll go to my office and print them and go to the signing they said that's fine. Right after that the borrower calls me wanting to know why we have to sign so late. I explained to her that I had just received the order and that I was at my son's military banquet. She expressed concern that it was late but still continued to confirm the signing. The banquet was moving slower than normal but I had already made a commitment so I had to leave before my son's ceremony began. I leave the banquet and drive the 35 miles to my office. on my way I call the borrower at 9:35 pm, she is an hour away from me, and let her know that I maybe a little bit late because I tried to wait for my son's ceremony and still ended up missing it. She again expressed a little bit of concern that it was late but she said she understood and that she would be waiting for my call. I arrive at my office get my computer pull up my email, and search and no documents. I call several phone numbers for the signing company. I hit every extension that they state on their web page and on their voicemail. I call every cell phone number that is listed in the email even on previous jobs frantically trying to get anybody to answer the phone. so by 10:30 I end up having to call the borrower and tell her that I do not have documents and I can't get anyone to say to respond and unfortunately we will not be able to complete the signing and therefore have to drive an additional 35 miles back to my home town.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 1/19/13 1:02pm
Msg #451190

I would have turned the signing down and never accepted it n/m

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 1:10pm
Msg #451192

Re: I would have turned the signing down and never accepted it

The only reason I accepted the signing was because after the ceremony I was going to have to leave my son there anyway because parents are required to leave and let the seniors enjoy their evening. So I didn't have anything to do for the rest of the evening, anyway, so I figured why not make a few bucks and that was my reasoning. but yes, if I had known that I was not going to receive docs I would have never accepted. That has happened to me in the past with the same company, if my memory serves me right, was the main reason that I checked to make sure the docs were ready because if the docs were not ready I would have not accepted this job.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 1:17pm
Msg #451194

Re: I would have turned the signing down and never accepted it

no it was not an extra expense it was included in the original fee agreement. So I wasn't charging anything extra but then the next day I have a 15 email conversation with someone, they still refused to answer a telephone and I've gotten all of those emails just fine but supposedly they sent the email with the docs last night in addition to the other 3 emails that I received but I never got the docs. So, go figure, now all of a sudden it's a notary error. The girl CC me on email to the title company stating that the notary had a glitch! I asked last night, why can't these docs be signed in the morning and the guy said no they need to be signed tonight.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/19/13 1:07pm
Msg #451191

Yeah...I'm not so sure you're entitled to a trip fee

because YOU happen to be, by choice, 35 miles from your office and YOU decide to take the job even though you're that far away. (I agree with Carolyn, I wouldn't have taken it either..but that's just me). IMHO you can expect payment for driving from office to borrower to package drop and back, but I don't think you can expect to be paid for going to your office and home again....although the argument could be made that it was because of the assignment that you incurred the 70 mile trip..

I don't know...I'd probably push back on that if *I* was an SS too. Still curious what happened to your docs that they supposedly had already. Think maybe they got another notary and that's why you never got the docs? Just a thought.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 1:28pm
Msg #451195

Re: Yeah...I'm not so sure you're entitled to a trip fee

I think it warrants the trip fee because every little tiny mistake that I make I get charged every single time. So all of a sudden they cost me money and time and now they don't have to pay for anything. No that's not right! especially when you turn around and lie about it. I mean that just really irks me to no end! I make a mistake I don't have a problem. I can own up to my mistakes. I don't have a problem with that. But then you turn around and blame the notary for your mistake. On top of that you're sending me email under false pretenses under a different name! It's not the mistake that I have the problem with it's the fact that first of all, she tries to blame me in front of Title for the signing not being completed, and secondly she sent me an email and tells me that they did nothing wrong! if they would have just answered the phone I would have received the docs, signing would have gotten signed, borrower would have at least ended her nightmare and everybody would be happy today.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/19/13 1:29pm
Msg #451197

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

...and that's why I have a mobile office, or at the very least a phone with email access where I can verify receipt of email documents. Had you had that, you wouldn't have had to leave the banquet until you saw the documents.

I fact, if it were me.... I would have said that I would not even consider confirming anything with the borrower until I had the documents. But then, I wouldn't have accepted a signing at 7:30 in the evening 35 miles away from my ability to view or print my email, either.

IN this case... no, I wouldn't pay you for the travel, either. It sounds harsh, but the travel involved wasn't to or from the borrower. As a business owner, this is something you should have been prepared for. You need to have the ability to verify receipt of email documents... be it with a smartphone capable of handling email, a tablet device with wifi, a laptop...something.

I really do NOT understand how people operate in a MOBILE service industry like ours and yet don't have an ounce of mobile technology beyond a basic telephone.

You guys can't tell me it's impossible or out of budget, either. I operate a complete mobile office... laptop, printer, smartphone, etc --- in the middle of the Mojave desert with a low and often non-existent cell phone signal. It's a challenge, but it can be done. I'm not rich. I have a disabled husband and we rely on my income. I buy used equipment and I drive a 14 year old car. It *can* be done.

Finally...SoCal signings? They don't have the best reputation. I wouldn't have left a family celebration for that. Also... and this is just me, but it seems selfish to make a borrow stay up late, after expressing a concern about the time at least twice to accommodate YOUR family celebration and then givng her a guilt trip about missing your son's portion of it? If I were the borrower, I'd be pretty ticked off about that. I wouldn't want to stay up late for you so you could attend a banquet. How convenient for YOU... but I'm the customer. It's rude. Frankly, given all that I read... the family event, the distance from your ability to view or print docs, the time, the reluctance of the borrower, the distance to the borrower, the reputation of the signing company? It would have been an easy turn down.

I realize you're likely upset because you missed something important to you... but it should serve as a lesson, if nothing else. You're a business owner.

1. Don't accept assignments for work on important nights when your family is involved, especially in the MIDDLE of those events.
2. Have the proper technology and equipment with you to verify receipt of documents. In this day and age, there is no reason to have to drive 30+ miles to check your email.


There's no reason to drive 30+ miles to verify receipt of an email these days. You can do that with you phone. In fact you can even print those documents FROM your phone to a wireless printer in your car. It is possible. I do it all the time.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 1:37pm
Msg #451198

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

there are several things that I could have done to change the situation I know that. I am referring to the fact that the signing company did not live up to their end of the bargain. I am totally aware of what I need to do. The problem was the signing company should be doing a better job at what they do because they are the ones charging more and they are the ones presenting themselves in front of the title company as the ones completing the job and they're not. So at the first sight of a problem or issue they immediately tell the title company that it was the error of the notary.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/19/13 2:12pm
Msg #451201

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

I get that, but my question is this... how is it THEIR responsibility to pay you for the time and travel between your banquet and your office to check your email?

The other part of the problem is that you're accepting work from a company with known reliability issues.

The best way to fix it is to 1) Not work for them anymore AND tell them why. and 2) Learn from this... make adjustments to your business model.

My own bit of advice.. obtain the technology to check you email wherever you happen to be. Don't rely on the need to travel to your office to check your email. That's a major hindrance to business, especially in a mobile industry such as this. You're Mobile... so be mobile.

Reply by CJ on 1/19/13 2:47pm
Msg #451206

My 2 cents.

I am so sorry that you had to miss the important banquet. I learned a long time ago: Don't take ANY jobs on a special day. ANYTHING could go wrong. I almost missed my daughter's graduation because the borrowers turned out to be picky readers and it too WAY too long.

Also, what if the borrowers decided that they wanted to change the time on you? Or what if you had to move the appointment because of docs? I once accepted a 4:30 pm job, and the docs were late, and the borrower was speaking at a banquet at later time, and so the job was bumped to 11:30 pm. What if you were told one time, only to find out the borrowers had to catch a plane and no one told scheduling. When it is an IMPORTANT even, just skip all the stress, turn down the jobs, and enjoy the day.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 3:01pm
Msg #451210

Re: My 2 cents.

thank you for the CJ that's been the nicest comment all day. I appreciate that. By the way that's another part of the signing company's job is to make sure that the time is right for the borrower if the borrower had said at anytime they did not want to sign I would have canceled it. But I was honest and upfront and told the borrower where I was and what I was doing when she called me. It was her choice to tell me at that moment that it was just too late... no problem. I don't think I disrespected the borrower at all. the title company and the signing company should make sure that the borrower is okay with the time.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/19/13 3:34pm
Msg #451218

Re: My 2 cents.

"By the way that's another part of the signing company's job is to make sure that the time is right for the borrower"

No it's not... it's nobody's responsibility to do YOUR job for you. They may give you a time, but these things change all the time. More often than not, these companies just assign an arbitrary time to a borrower that is completely inconvenient without ever asking. I often discover that when I get the documents and then confirm the appointment, the borrowers always prefer I come at some other time.

In your case you stated that your borrower expressed concern at LEAST twice about the lateness of your visit. The timing of the visit was set to accommodate YOU not her. She didn't want you there that late and made it clear.

These appointment times are usually always flexible and it's nobody's responsibility but your own, as an independent business owner to set the time with the borrower. The signing companies are not allowed to control you like that unless you are their employee or you have signed a contract allowing them to do it.

Even more appalling to me is that you then tossed at the borrower that you missed part of your son's ceremony because of all of this. All that after she told you she didn't like you coming that late? Yeah... to me, that was rude. If I were that borrower... I would have told you where to stick it, documents or no documents.

It's not that I lack empathy for the hard lessons here.... but it's the truth that if you come here to vent, especially if you start venting about company that is well-known to be difficult to work with, you're going to get some tough love responses and some much needed advice for future reference so you can be successful.

Now, was it YOUR mistake because they didn't send the documents? No... but I think a lot of your reaction here is emotional because of the situation, much of it you brought on yourself. And no, they don't owe you a dime for driving to your office to check your email. Your lack of ability to do that is not their responsibility... you're an independent business owner and you need to have that capability and eat this as an expensive lesson. Plus... don't work for that company anymore.. obviously...as they have a reputation for low/no pay and lying to notaries.

Reply by Lisa Cirillo on 1/22/13 2:20pm
Msg #451537

Re: My 2 cents.

I have to add in my 2 cents as well. I got a call a few months ago from so-cal signings. I accepted the job. Got the documents and did the job. They called again, it was at this point I looked them up in SC. To my surprise, they have a terrible reputation and my first thought was "this is the one I'll have to fight to get paid".

To my surprise, they paid ahead of time, the documents were received for both jobs promptly. I had great communciationwith them and would do more work for them.

I believe in putting family first, as I've seen someone else say in this thread. I would not have taken that job, especially since it was 35 miles from my office knowing that I couldn't check my email from my iphone because of a dead battery. Sorry but I'm will a lot of others on this one, I'm not sure how you see it that they owe you anything. This is one of those live and learn experiences.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 2:49pm
Msg #451207

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

whether I would have had a cellphone, a smartphone, a telepathic device or had been able to read my email, none of that changes the fact that the email was never sent by So-cal, documents were never sent, nobody answered the after hours number as supposedly is there for the notary and they blamed the notary for the error! But if it's this hard for this form to understand then I guess I must be the one who's confused.
yes I know not to accept signings from them I've already made that clear to them. I will definitely be verifying my email from my samsung Note II (which had a dead battery from all the videoing I was doing). I will definitely be making sure that the signing company is doing their job next time! I'm sorry, I thought that I was speaking to equally experienced notaries and who understood that I was not commenting for advice on how to prevent this. I was venting because again another sign company not doing their job but getting paid for it! Sign me up directly with the title company and lose the signing company! I have charged signing companies 5 dollar fees for their mistakes and nothing at all just for the principle of the matter! It was not about the fee. It wasabout the lying, about the deceiving, it was about the cuniving, it was about the unprofessionalism!

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/19/13 10:23pm
Msg #451274

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

<<<......my samsung Note II (which had a dead battery from all the videoing I was doing).>>>

You could have easily gone to your car, plugged dead batteried smartphone into car charger, started the car and logged into your email account to check for the docs while still parked at your son's event. You would not have had to drive anyplace. You cannot control the other business (the SS). You can only have procedures in place that ensure that YOUR business is run efficiently and orderly. Complaining about the SS is rather useless.

<<<...none of that changes the fact that the email was never sent by So-cal, documents were never sent, nobody answered the after hours number as supposedly is there for the notary and they blamed the notary for the error! But if it's this hard for this form to understand then I guess I must be the one who's confused.>>>

Okay, we get it....that's what THEY did....but what safeguards or procedures do YOU implement to ensure that YOU aren't wasting valuable time, gasoline, resources, and being taken advantage of? Companies cannot inconvenience you unless you lack business policies that allow them to. You do have the latest smartphone - and it WAS possible to check your email from your Samsung Note II without having to drive 35 miles. If you made calls to the numbers provided and no one answered, then there was nothing you could do but leave your parked car and go back into the event.

Many of the professional notaries here saw your post as whining about the trouble YOU brought on yourself.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/19/13 3:00pm
Msg #451209

Murphy's Law: if it can go wrong, it will.

Family first, because in the final analysis, if you don't put family first, no one else will. You will lose big time.

And now, I suspect, you are kicking yourself more than them and just can't admit it. I would also venture to say that almost all of us here have done something just like this, at least once, and decided that that situation would not happen again. It is a growth moment, accept it and vow to not repeat.

I am sorry for your tough lesson - I certainly would not wish it upon you or anyone else.

Reply by SERVICIO on 1/19/13 3:06pm
Msg #451211

Re: Murphy's Law: if it can go wrong, it will.

Thank you JBA. I appreciate your compassion.

Reply by CJ on 1/19/13 9:19pm
Msg #451271

Docs never arriving.

I know what you mean: you need the docs, no one is answering the phone and you have no way to find out if they are in your email. I only have 2 companies that will answer the phone 24/7 and ALSO be able to answer any question. I think it is wrong of companies to just turn off the phone and go home, while we are still out there trying to solve problems. And if you DON'T drive home, they will show up at the last minute, and you should have left an hour ago. And everyone is only worried about themselves and not your very important event. I'm sorry this went so badly.

I have had a few of these situations myself and I finally said, "I CAN'T take jobs on important days any more." I look back on those important days and instead of happy memories, I think of the selfish, lazy, demanding people involved in a signing who contributed to a messed up day. I'm sure they have long forgotten the whole thing, but I remember. Even if the event is only a couple of hours, you don't know how things might go wrong with the signing and it will be all on you. you don't need the stress. Keep the whole day clear: you don't even want to be THINKING about docs at the event.

I hope your next event goes better.

Reply by sueharke on 1/20/13 12:55pm
Msg #451299

Re: Okay..I'm curious and just have to ask..

I suggest you visit the Small Business Development Center (SBDC) in your area and take their course on how to run a business. Also, consider using the services of SCORE (part of the the SBDC), where retired executives look at how you run your business and suggest better ways to make money more efficiently.