Posted by Patricia Roberts on 7/16/13 7:27pm
Msg #477031

Loan Application (1003)

I'm back.....another question for those that have been doing this for awhile, on the Loan Application (form 1003) the first page at the top has a place for the borrower and co-borrower to sign if they are applying for joint credit on the application. Is there ever a time when you have two borrowers- husband and wife, and they are not doing a joint credit application or would they always sign at the top of the first page? I had a signing last week and the husband told me that they were not doing a joint credit application so I did not have him or his wife sign there and now I am being told I missed a signature on the loan application. Is there some confusion here???? If you can clear this up for me I would appreciate it. Thanks again....I promise no more questions today.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/16/13 7:31pm
Msg #477034

Interpretation is all in the reading of that blurb at top

Only one portion of it refers to joint credit. The rest of it is standard borrower language. Any borrowers and co-borrowers listed on the 1003 sign the top. If only one borrower, only the borrower signs.

Reply by Darlin_AL on 7/16/13 7:39pm
Msg #477037

Re: Interpretation is all in the reading of that blurb at top

Did you/do you study the notary instructions for these forms? I say this not to be stinky, but there's tons of illustrated info describing the forms & the differences involved in a signing where only 1 partner of a married couple has applied & is signing the loan obligation. This is so basic, I would suggest you read-up on the community property documentation signatures required on what forms & how come. If you haven't already, shell out some $$ & take a good course. It would also provide you with the reference material you either don't have, didn't read, or don't understand. You appear to be really playing with dynamite at this stage, IMHO.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/16/13 8:47pm
Msg #477060

Agree. If this is an application for joint credit, then

both sign.

Nevertheless, for single borrowers who are 'forced' to sign on a line, N/A works on "co-borrower's' sig line to emphasize the point that this is *not* an application for joint credit.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/16/13 8:18pm
Msg #477047

Re: Interpretation is all in the reading of that blurb at top

I agree with Linda....borrower and co-borrower both sign the top.

Reply by 101livescan on 7/16/13 8:24pm
Msg #477050

It is a prior to funding condition that the borrower and co-borrower sign the 1003 on all required pages and initial wherever indicated.

Reply by Jack/AL on 7/16/13 8:34pm
Msg #477056

'Tis simple. Look half way down the first page of the 1003. The remainder of the page has a column with information about the BORROWER on the left half of the page. The right half is formatted for information about the co-borrower, if any. If there is not a name, SSN, and other info on that right side of the page, then there is no co-borrower, so only one person signs (that being the borrower, signing at the top of page one, and other places on the following 2 or more pages of the 1003).

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/16/13 8:58pm
Msg #477061

The point is, the Single Borrower is wise not to sign

an 1003 Application agreeing it is an application for joint credit; remember: IF this is an application for joint credit...) The Single Borrower signs the end of the app under penalty of perjury, correct?

N/A is a common mark used as well.

Reply by Clem/CA on 7/16/13 8:38pm
Msg #477057

UMMMM Read the form, if two names are on it have both sign, One name one signature, unless it says no signature required, look at the rest of the form for more signatures, even the famous BLANK PAGE 4. Some have two sig lines on them one at the top and one at the bottom... don't miss them. Some have signature lines on top and initials at the bottom... don't miss them. READ THE FORM. Don't forget the dates.

Reply by JanelWI on 7/16/13 9:16pm
Msg #477064

I feel the problem with the top of this form is the fact that many companies interpret this differently and hand down these blanket instructions that do not clarify the difference between a married borrower with a non-obligor or a single borrower. I have seen blanket instructions that go either way.

Even though her wording was a bit wrong, I think she was asking is there ever a time that a "married" borrower does not sign the top of the 1003.

Personally, I have asked on many occasion and have been told by some that married borrowers do not sign the top as it is not an application for joint credit. Others tell me, yes, they must sign as the spouses income was not required but certain assets and or marital property requirements apply....so the problem is, in my opinion, that causes the confusion, is that the direction that comes down from the "top" for lack of better words, is not consistent.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 7/16/13 10:14pm
Msg #477068

Re: Loan Application (1003)~ Msg 470586

I agree, Janel. That "run on" sentence (paragraph) is interpreted - and misinterpreted. It's like a traffic intersection with where somebody turned the signs around!

As stated earlier, it will help to know the state's marital rights laws (see helpful post in msg above).

That is one of those docs that I don't think it hurts (at least for new folks) to print an extra one; I believe in VA, we always have borrower(s) sign - single app or not.

I'd go with the veterans here: No sign. No fund.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/17/13 12:20am
Msg #477082

Completely agree, Janel. You probably remember, like I do, when this version of the 1003 was first introduced. There was tons of confusion and lots of discussion on this forum about that issue. And as you said, the confusion continues. So I think the question from the OP was a good one for someone new. I've seen conflicting instructions on this issue, too. I eventually decided to go with Susan's suggestion to put NA where it asks for the co-borrower's signature for a single person or where a spouse isn't on the loan and I've never heard any complaints about that.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/16/13 10:12pm
Msg #477067

Seen every which way, so do it both ways...end of my problem n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 7/16/13 10:15pm
Msg #477069

Re: Seen every which way, so do it both ways...end of my problem

You were reading my mind . . . (maybe I was reading yours)

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/17/13 5:31am
Msg #477085

In all fairness, this question is still being asked on BankersOnline - and having just checked, I can't believe that Fannie/Freddie still don't address it specifically. Until they do (and apparently nobody should be holding their breath), it's left to the myriad interpretations of every individual with the power to push their own interpretation.

We get no vote.

I asked one particular lender that I do a large volume with - they do not need the top signed by sole borrowers, I checked with their compliance dept. Most of these close in a branch, with the L/O present - and I can't win. If I do not have the top signed, the L/O will stop me and say I missed it - if I DO have it signed, the L/O will stop me and say it's not correct. Compliance won't kick it back if it's unnecessarily signed - and L/O Golden Rule #1 is to NEVER call out an L/O in front of their client. I just roll with it, these types of L/O's need the "I know more than you know" moment and I can sure live without it.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/17/13 6:55am
Msg #477090

Exactly~~ and why I do it both w & w/o a signature

and then there are the ones who want every page initialed.... and the ones with small signature lines in the lower left corner... just print 2 of page 1 and do it both ways. Cheap in the long run.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 7/17/13 9:48am
Msg #477110

Power to PUSH

You are so right, Renee!

The only ones needing to "take a course" in this instance are the draft regulators over at Hud!!

(but we can hope: they finally addressed the 'Note' issue for VA Notaries)

Reply by MW/VA on 7/17/13 8:24am
Msg #477097

I always have them sign that top line on page 1, even if

it's only one borrower. That's what I've always been instructed to do, and IMO it's not my decision to make. BTW, when I applied for a loan as a single person they did not have me sign that line.