Posted by Jocelyn/NJ on 7/23/13 5:04pm
Msg #477806

Provident

Had a very bad experience with a Provident loan and want to share. If anyone has done Provident closings, you are aware of their no crossout, clear signature rules. They've now gotten to the point where they scrutinize each and every signature that the borrowers execute and we all know how as the closing winds down towards the end, people's signatures change slightly. I completed a closing the other evening for a couple and the wife had a hyphenated name. I was called back 2 days later to go back, because her signature on the mortgage (beginning of pack) varied slightly with two documents at the end of the package. When I rec'd. the rejected signatures along with the good signatures that they wanted me to have her match, I actually did a cut and paste and put the 3 signatures on top of one another. The variation was ever so slight, but for fear of me not getting my fee, I went back. How embarrassing it was when she signed, yet another variation, again ever so slight. There's just no way one would've thought that maybe it was a different person; that's how slight the variation was. Then to find out that they're not paying me anyway, as the borrower was so annoyed that she had to re-sign two docs that she previously signed, that she complained to the title office, and the title office had no choice but to refund the closing fee to Provident. I am appalled at the title company and Provident. Just advice to beware when doing closings for Provident. Ask for additional fees, in case you have to go out again. What's amazing and I should've learned is that about a month ago in another Provident closing, for another signing office, I was asked to print two copies of the docs in addition to the set for the borrower. I rec'd. an additional fee so I did not complain, however, I was advised "we do this so that we have two sets to compare which are the best signatures for Provident". How crazy. Provident is off my list. No other bank that I do work for does this - Wells, Citi, Greentree, Bank of Am, etc. Thanks for letting me vent. Would be interested if anyone else had this experience with them.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/23/13 5:09pm
Msg #477807

Not just Provident, though I hear

what you're saying - shame on the title company for not having your back!! And not paying you!!

I would not accept that s final. You were back out there not because of your own mistake but at Provident's insistence. You should be paid. I would bill them - and bill and bill and bill, and add late fees, then include a small claims notice - I would NOT let this title company get away with this - because you can bet your bottom dollar that loan funded and everyone else got paid. How dare the title company take it upon themselves to throw you under the bus and refund YOUR fee.

I'd also take it to the banking commission in my state AND the title insurance regulating agency. No, I would not let this go.

JMO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/23/13 5:10pm
Msg #477808

And as an afterthought - wonder how much money

Provident saves (and disburses in bonuses) in refunded notary signing agent fees

oohh..this has me boiling now..

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/23/13 5:51pm
Msg #477811

I can relate to what you're saying. I haven't done any Provident signings for a long time - and I used to do lots of them. One of the very last ones I did was for an older gentleman (from the other side of the world, where they write their numbers a little differently) who had a slight tremor in his signing hand. (I know you can see it coming...) In this case, it was an RTC page, I think, that they didn't like. I was asked to go back just for that one page (that didn't need notarizing, of course) and the poor guy did the best he could. I felt really bad for both borrowers, as it could have held up their loan. But seriously??!!

I don't get the point of all of that. Are they just trying to get out of funding some loans? I remember signing a retired FBI handwriting expert once who told me that one of the red flags they looked for when searching for forgeries was signatures that looked TOO similar. He said that was a sign that they were machined signed and that a normal person's signature will always have some variations.

I just don't get these expectations of perfection! It reminds me of another hot new trend I'm seeing with lots of businesses that I think is a bit crazy. That has to do with the request for online ratings about the level of service provided by a company or individual, where anything but the very best score is considered a fail. I've been getting that from the dealership where I have my car serviced, among others - and today I got it from FEDEX! (And the poor guy was embarrassed to have to ask for the rating.)

Personally, I'm one of those people who thinks that "2nd to the best" is still pretty good when I do a rating. I feel a 10 out of 10, or a 5 out of 5 should be reserved for something truly exceptional, or "out of the ordinary", so by definition, all 10's should imply a flawed, inaccurate survey. But if anything less than "out of the ordinary" - even for something as routine and ordinary as dropping off a package - is considered a fail, they basically reduce their employees to having to beg for a perfect score. The data then become perfectly meaningless, except maybe as either a phony marketing tool, or as a way for some executives to delude themselves about what's happening within their company!

I suspect some would-be management guru somewhere has published something on this subject. It may have been widely misinterpreted by some executives, or was off-base to begin with, however, it appears to have become the new darling of management, or "employee motivation" practitioners - perhaps in lieu of giving employees raises or simply treating them with respect and appreciation... What a concept!

OK, I guess I'd better quit now, or leave this page. Thanks, though, for giving me the opening to get that off my chest!

Reply by anotaryinva on 7/23/13 7:16pm
Msg #477832

I've heard enough horror stories about Provident to stay clear, I've done a couple with no issues but I heard of one that was turned back because the notary switched out pens, one blue for a different blue (different brand pen) that caused me to just say no.
Sorry for your ordeal, I would definitely go after the TC, you did the work you should be paid. Period.

Reply by Notarysigner on 7/23/13 6:41pm
Msg #477820

The last Provident Loan I did, I was asked to go back out on, I refused because it was illegal. The hiring party bagged me to go (he was also a notary) or he would lose his client and I still said no. He later called me and told me he got another notary to do it. He added "they" fixed it in house. I waited until I got paid and reported them....Haven't worked for them since (or the hiring party either).

Reply by Cheryl Elliott on 7/23/13 6:41pm
Msg #477821

They are a PITA lender to deal with. I no longer do Provident loans, frankly, there are less hassling lenders to deal with. They once had the best rates, but now they have competition.

Not worth getting one fee for two trips and all the stress that comes with it.

Time is money, right?

Reply by Bear900/CA on 7/23/13 7:04pm
Msg #477827

Most lenders are tight these days. Provident is Wack! n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 7/23/13 7:07pm
Msg #477829

"Would be interested if anyone else had this experience with them."

A simple orange button search would turn up endless accounts of experience with Provident loan signings.

Reply by ME/NJ on 7/23/13 7:16pm
Msg #477831

Had one last year minor issue could of been handled without me. Had to drive an hour each way to get it resolved. Asked companynot to send anymore provident deals, and they said it was biggest client. Bye bye Pac Docs.

Reply by JustANotary on 7/23/13 10:21pm
Msg #477869

I quit doing signings for Provident years ago. It sounds like they have gotten even worse. Unbelievable. I think someone there gets some joy out of making notaries do more work. Think of all of the wasted time & wasted gas.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/23/13 10:32pm
Msg #477874

I'm shocked that the borrowers put up with this nonsense.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/23/13 11:05pm
Msg #477876

I don't get that either, Lisa. You either take my signature, all of them, or forget it. How shallow.

Reply by droman_IL on 7/23/13 11:31pm
Msg #477877

I did a Provident closing and they wanted it re-done because

they didn't like the way the borrowers wrote the number 1 in the date! They questioned the TC on whether or not I had $500K E&O and of course I don't need it for any of my other clients, and when they found out I didn't, they wanted another notary sent out to re-do the entire loan package (YES! because of the #1!) The TC paid me for my work, but I refuse to do any of their closings. It's the main reason I DON'T get $500K E&O, so I can apologetically say," oh no! I don't have that much E&O, sorry, I can't accept the assignment," in my best "disappointed" voice!

Reply by Scriba/NM on 7/24/13 1:34am
Msg #477885

Idiotic Appears To Be The Operative Word Here

Yes, I've done some Provident loans - they come with a bunch of instructions. I guess I've been lucky - never got any back. But here's the curious thing:

Title hires a Notary Signing Agent. He/she has a commission by the state to witness signatures. In the loan package there are non-notarized signatures and notarized ones. The Notary Signing Agent presents pages to the borrowers and they sign. Once this is done, the notary reviews the package (hopefully) and sends it back. End of story.

I would enjoy hearing what the qualifications are of the people who are "detecting" that some of these signatures may not "look" similar. No one signs the same way each time, especially when they are signing page after page of bloated loan packages and are nearing (thankfully) the end of the package.

Do they think somehow the notary starts taking over the signing of the package for the borrowers half-way through by forging their signatures? These Provident people are either paranoid, delusional or just stupid. Don't know which. If I was called back to go get more signatures, you can damned well believe that there would be an additional charge for such tom-foolery, or I wouldn't be going out again. And I would be paid for the original signing or this retired collections manager would be up to his old tricks.

Reply by Tim Cameron on 7/24/13 8:42am
Msg #477891

Provident deals suck and if you want to change it you tell the SS's the same thing I do, if they require perfect, I require a fee that represents it......In my mind, 200.00 bucks is cheap to achieve perfection......if we all stood up and did this, provident loans wouldn't get closed until they come off their high horse......

Reply by desktopfull on 7/24/13 9:11am
Msg #477894

The only way I would do a Provident signing is if they were to pay me $1000.00 up front. The last one I did, I was sent back 3 times because they didn't make the date 100% identical on every page.

Reply by RIcloser on 7/24/13 10:53pm
Msg #477966

The worst one was when a borrower sometimes wrote the date with dashes and slashes! The borrower was really miffed for the waste of his time to resign - and so was I! But, with the threat of not funding, we acquiesced. Not fair and totally ludicrous! Never again!

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 7/25/13 4:44pm
Msg #478043

I agree w/ all comments. Jocelyn tell us who this TC is pls!

Don't give up 'till you get your money! No more Provident loans!