Posted by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 9:05am
Msg #476048

Wells Fargo - notary journal requirement

First American has sent an email requiring that we maintain a notary journal for all Wells Fargo orders, "even if state does not require one" They do not offer payment for the journal and do not indicate provisions for storage of completed journals. MN does not require and does not accept completed journals. Also, we cannot discriminate who we journalize and who we do not. I wonder if this requirement has been reviewed by NNA. I will simply decline Wells orders

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/9/13 9:14am
Msg #476049

"Also, we cannot discriminate who we journalize and who we do not." That's interesting. Your state doesn't have a journal requirement, but nevertheless has rules about how to use one if you choose to?

"I wonder if this requirement has been reviewed by NNA." Why do you care what the NNA thinks?

Reply by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 9:29am
Msg #476052

Our state recommends one, but clearly states that it is not required. There are guidelines for journal users. Also, I happen to be a member of NNA and trust what they have to say. First American Title was featured in a recent NNA Bulletin, stating a strong connection. A notary journal use cannot be dictated by a title company / lender. It is a Journal of Notarial Acts, which is in my posession and will not be turned over without a court order.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/9/13 10:54am
Msg #476066

"I happen to be a member of NNA and trust what they have to say."

If that were the case, you'd be keeping a journal, if even not required... because the NNA highly recommends every notary keep a journal. In fact, it's part of their Model Notary Act.

Reply by Pam/NM on 7/9/13 9:18am
Msg #476050

I'm puzzled

What does the NNA have to do with it? And if your state does not require you to mainatin a journal, why do they give you instructions about discriminating? I live in NM and we are not required to keep a journal, however I do (it is "strongly encouraged). I explain to the parties involved that I maintain a journal to keep record that I have performed notarizations for them and it is for their protection as well as mine. Not sure why you'd object? It's a safeguard for you.

Reply by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 9:32am
Msg #476054

Re: I'm puzzled

I agree that keeping a journal is a safeguard for me. It is my choice to used a journal or not. I question only how a title company or lender can dictate the use of a tool used by Notaries.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/9/13 12:30pm
Msg #476084

Re: I'm puzzled

"I question only how a title company or lender can dictate the use of a tool used by Notaries." It's really no different than telling you to use blue or black pens. They can't force you to, but you can't force them to hire you.

As for when to provide copies, you might make some inquiries. My state also has no journal requirement, but all records of public officials are subject to inspection by the public. Anyone can come visit me and view my journals (but I don't have to send copies).

Reply by sueharke on 7/9/13 12:43pm
Msg #476088

Re: I'm puzzled

Did you read the recent post about a notary possibly being sued for fraud. I suggest asking an attorney if using a journal is in your best interest and what information to put in it. When dealing with the legal side it is cheaper to get advice before it is needed or as it is said "pay me now or pay me later."

Reply by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 12:50pm
Msg #476089

Re: I'm puzzled

thanks to all for responding...certainly something to think about

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/9/13 9:29am
Msg #476053

Here's the blurb from the MN handbook - says nothing

about discriminating who you "journalize".

"NOTARIAL JOURNAL
State law does not require a notary to keep records of their official acts. However, it is recommended that you keep a journal to assist in recalling what you have done, if
needed or if legally challenged. You should record the following information:

1. Date
2. Type of notarial act
3. A description of the document
4. The signature, printed name and address of each document signer
5. How the signer proved their identity
6. County
7. Fee charged, if any

Safeguard your journal because it serves as an important public record. Please note, even if you became a notary as a function of your employment, the stamp and journal are your personal property. "

http://www.thenotaryacademy.com/minnesota.html

I, too, would not care what the NNA says about it. We don't have a journal requirement in Florida but I keep one - it's my only record of ever notarizing anything as I don't keep copies of docs. I AM surprised that Wells Fargo feels they can impose notary regulations in opposition of what the notary's state law requires.

JMO

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/9/13 9:33am
Msg #476055

You are correct that Minnesota does not require a journal; however, they strongly recommend that you do keep one. It is for your benefit. I have kept a journal since 2002. It has come in handy quite a few times when companies stated to me that the loan was cancelled before I received documents. This has been my only proof that it did occur because the borrowers signed the journal on the date the closing was scheduled.

"NOTARIAL JOURNAL
State law does not require a notary to keep records of
their offi cial acts. However, it is recommended that you
keep a journal to assist in recalling what you have done, if
needed or if legally challenged. You should record the
following informati on:
1. Date
2. Type of notarial act
3. A descripti on of the document
4. The signature, printed name and
address of each document signer
5. How the signer proved their identi ty
6. County
7. Fee charged, if any
Safeguard your journal because it serves as an
important public record. Please note, even if you became
a notary as a functi on of your employment, the stamp and
journal are your personal property."

This was taken directly from the State of Minnesota Secretary of State website.

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/9/13 9:36am
Msg #476057

Also, it is a business expense. Premier members get a nice

discount right here on Notary Rotary.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/9/13 9:35am
Msg #476056

Here's another question about this that occurred to me

Will First American be requiring that a copy of your journal entry for each signing be returned with the loan docs?

Reply by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 9:42am
Msg #476058

Re: Here's another question about this that occurred to me

Good question. There could be "quality" issues that will arise if we do not comply.

Reply by BobbiCT on 7/9/13 11:27am
Msg #476079

Wells Fargo Takes on MASSIVE LIABILITY RISK

NOT an attorney, but worked with one that researched a financial institution considering requiring journals in a no-journal-required state; bottom line - they did not want the liability and neither did their insurance carrier (wasn't Wells Fargo). Not legal advice or opinion.

By requiring you keep a journal, Wells Fargo has decided to take on a massive amount of liability for your journal in a no-journal-required state! It takes on the liability for that information being lost, stolen and used illegally. Wells Fargo takes the risk of every signer's identity theft and, in most states, the requirement that if your journal is lost or stolen, reporting requirements to all parties whose information is in your journal under your particular state's reporting requirements. On the flip side, Wells Fargo may have a hard time getting information from its "required journal by independent public official notary" because of state privacy laws.

For example, In CT there's some SERIOUS laws and regulations if anyone keeps/stores another person's Social Security number. I hope Wells Fargo researches each state's laws and regulations and tells their notaries public what the requirements and laws are. This is NOT something you can get from your commissioning office in a no-journal-required state.

Reply by novyli/MN on 7/9/13 12:53pm
Msg #476090

Re: Wells Fargo Takes on MASSIVE LIABILITY RISK

Thank you! I will glady research further!

Reply by jnew on 7/9/13 12:41pm
Msg #476086

When a journal is not a Journal.

This seems to be similar to the notary report required with Chase loans. I would doubt that these closings require a separate bound journal. I also live in a state without notary journal requirements, but I keep one anyway, and our state website recommends the use of one. You might just want to create one on a word processor and design it for use of Wells Fargo with preprinted entries for the typical documents they send. I would suspect that the notaries who prepare for this requirement and readily accept it are going to have a smoother and more profitable road.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 7/9/13 1:38pm
Msg #476096

Re: When a journal is not a Journal.

A record of some, but not all, notarial acts is of limited value. If the object is to show that you did perform a signing, and provide a list of documents were notarized, it will do pretty well. But it wouldn't be much good if you want to show you DIDN'T perform a notarization. The person claiming you did perform it will just claim it's one of the ones you didn't write in your journal.

Also, backdating sometimes comes up on the forum. If you aren't very busy, you could probably get away with cooking your journal so it looks OK. But suppose a dishonest notary is busy enough to have entries almost every day. He already has some entries for July 8 and 9. Now someone comes along and want's him to backdate a signing to July 5. So either he would have to enter it out-of-order, which would be suspicious, or "lose" the old journal and start a new one. So the bound, page-numbered, sequential journal helps demonstrate that you have not backdated.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 7/9/13 7:50pm
Msg #476143

The actual email referred to by the OP:

"Attention Signing Agents!

All Signing Agents must keep a journal for notarizations regardless of whether it is a state requirement or not for all WELLS FARGO HOME MORTGAGE \ LOSS MITIGATION TITLE SERVICES Orders."

This came from FASS, not First American Title. FASS also includes with all their package, at least in my limited experience with them, the Notarial Evidence Form. The NEF was originally started (don't recall by whom) for Chase loans. FASS uses it for all their packages ... at least, all the ones I've done.

To the OP, I would strongly urge you to seriously consider using a journal. It's a protection for you as well as the signers. As already stated by others, the cost of the journal is a business expense and, therefore, a tax write-off. Good prices here on NotRot for premier members. Or, you can opt to create your own, provided it covers all the requirements of your State.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/9/13 3:59pm
Msg #476116

It must be a tc requirement (First American), because I do

a lot of WF signings & have never been asked about a Journal.

Reply by desktopfull on 7/9/13 5:15pm
Msg #476125

Re: It must be a tc requirement (First American), because I do

I do a lot of First American closings for Wells Fargo and other lenders and have never been asked to do this.

Reply by desktopfull on 7/9/13 5:13pm
Msg #476124

Exactly when was Wells Fargo given authority by all states

to dictate what the Notary Public's in those states must do? Let them send me that email and I will be forwarding it to Tallahassee. Wonder what the Governor and SOS will have to say about the Wells Fargo mandate!