Posted by Eric Andrist on 6/1/13 4:47pm
Msg #471982

Extending foreign passport,notarize birth certificate

I have a client here right now from the Ukraine who needs to extend his foreign passport. According to the Ukranian Embassy website, he is to get his birth certificate, social security and permanent resident card, notarized.

I know I'm not supposed to notarize official documents. Is there a way to notarize a form that says he affirms that these are true and legal documents?

Reply by Eric Andrist on 6/1/13 4:58pm
Msg #471984

Here's what it says on the San Francisco Ukrainian Embassy website:

Completed an application to renew a passport.
Photocopies of documents issued by the U.S. government: the so-called alien registration card - "PERMANENT RESIDENT CARD" card and social security - "SOCIAL SECURITY CARD" - for the citizens of Ukraine, including and for children under 16.
A notarized copy of birth certificate;
Notarized copy of marriage certificate.
Fees in the form of money transfer ("postal money order") for U.S. $ 50 for each passport (payable to the Consulate General of Ukraine in San Francisco). Checks and cash are accepted.
Pre-paid addressed envelope (Express Mail or Federal Express. FedEx to check the Account No. Payment by credit card is not accepted).
Consulate General does not accept and send documents of international mail.
Consulate General is not responsible for lost, damaged, incorrectly addressed or delivered late postage.
NOTE: All applications, statements and copies of documents must be notarized.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/3/13 6:44am
Msg #472057

Eric Andrist quotes the Ukraine San Francisco Embassy website as saying "NOTE: All applications, statements and copies of documents must be notarized."

When the requester of a document says he/she/they want it "notarized", that's a dead giveaway they're clueless. A competent requester would state what notarial act they wanted, such as acknowledgement, oath, or copy certification. They would also state what they want for states that don't authorize notaries to certify copies.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/1/13 5:05pm
Msg #471985

A form that many use is called a Certification by Document Custodian, which is basically a sworn statement the person is affirming the documents he's providing copies of are accurate.

Now, there are things to consider here...

While it's a common document, it's not necessarily wise to tell anybody they should use it. It may or may not be accepted the receiving agency. If they use it, and it isn't accepted, that person could come back to you and complain that you gave them the impression the form was the right one to use. This has the potential result in a complaint to the Secretary of State.

I carry a form like this, but I don't give it to anyone unless they specifically ASK for it. I know a lot of notaries just hand it over from the start. I don't because I don't want to give the impression that I'm giving them advice. What I do, at most, is tell them to ask tell document recipient that, by law, we're not allowed to certify copies of these documents and to ASK them if they would accept a sworn statement from them (the affiant) that the documents are true copies.

This is the form I use for that when there is a single person swearing/affirming. It's tailored to California because it had the required CA jurat wording:

www.highdesertnotary.com/forms/copy certification by document custodian - single notary jurat.pdf

In reality, I'm not sure how effective it is... because it's NOT certifying the cop of these documents. In my experience, when the agencies want certified copies of documents... that's what they mean. Thing is, a lot of foreign countries don't understand that notaries in the US work differently. Not only that, CA notaries are quite restricted and regulated.

Reply by Eric Andrist on 6/1/13 5:09pm
Msg #471986

Thanks Marian...that's sort of what I thought. It just seemed odd to see it on the San Francisco Embassy page to get them notarized...you'd think they'd know better.

Thanks for the link....that'll be good to have on hand.

Appreciate it!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/1/13 5:14pm
Msg #471987

You'd *think* they know... but they don't. A lot of state and Federal agencies don't really care or have knowledge of the rules we have to deal with.

You could also call the Embassy directly and talk to them, just in case. Tell them the issue and ask if they have an alternative acceptable solution. I've done that before.

Reply by walthtz on 6/1/13 8:31pm
Msg #471992

In New jersey, the only person that can Notarize a birth Certificate is the Issuer of the document.
The same Goes for Drivers Licenses.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/1/13 10:08pm
Msg #471998

Huh?

To my knowledge, there is no such thing as a notarized birth certificate or DL, even in NJ. There are notarized copies of these documents, but as Marian said, many receiving agencies don't want those; they want the real deal: a certified copy (that nobody notarizes).

States/counties maintain vital records (the originals). Drivers carry their DL. (How could anybody notarize a plastic DL?) Anyway, states/counties issue certified copies of vital records. This is usually done on fancy paper with raised lettering or drawings or other security stuff.

If a copy of a vital record is notarized, it's done as Marian described. Again, we're talking copies, only. The originals are always in government hands. The custodian of a copy of a vital record (usually a xerox copy of a certified copy) takes an oath that they possess a true and correct copy of the original and then their signature is notarized. It's highly unlikely an original vital record would be notarized even by the holder. At least I've never seen one.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/2/13 9:50am
Msg #472016

Birth certificates are vital records and certified copies (not notarized copies) can only be obtained from the office of vital records in the respective state.
Drivers licenses are not vital records and can be photocopied and the photocopy notarized - at least in Florida.

"The following documents can be photocopied from the original (if not officially filed or recorded) and attested to by a notary, because certified copies cannot be obtained from another public official:
�� Florida driver's license �� Florida vehicle title �� Social Security card �� Diploma
�� Medical record �� U.S. passport �� Bill of sale �� Contract
�� Lease �� Resident alien card ��

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/13 10:19pm
Msg #472049

The other day, a guy from Ukraine said

"Don't say 'THE Ukraine.'" to one of the folks in my office.

Just a public service announcement, in case you're interested. No more THE.