Posted by ikando on 6/15/13 3:13pm
Msg #473477

Form RUS 282

Just met with a man who insisted he needed to have his signature notarized on a Form RUS 282. This is a government form for contractors who build out rural internet service which verifies they are bonded and insured.

There is no notarial verbiage, nor any room to put a stamp for that verbiage, so we improvised by putting the verbiage on the back and my signature and stamp on the front. (No need to comment on this workaround, because that's not the thrust of this message.)

I went online when I returned to my computer and it appears to be yet another government form, like the I-9, which people/companies have decided a notary needs to witness signatures and notarize. There is no government requirement for notarization.

I wonder if other people have encountered this and how they complied with the company's requirements when it is not a government requirement.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/15/13 3:26pm
Msg #473478

Honestly... I send them to their bank or some such where it

will get done however they want it--just not by me. Yeah...easy way out. Quicker, too.

Reply by Clem/CA on 6/15/13 3:42pm
Msg #473479

You signature and stamp are not on the same page as verbiage? Will that fly in OK.?

Reply by ikando on 6/15/13 4:00pm
Msg #473481

Clem, I noted that that was not the issue. The fact is, there is no requirement on that form or from the government that the document be notarized at all. I was only complying with the request by the signer since I was unfamiliar with the form.

Reply by CinOH on 6/15/13 4:23pm
Msg #473484

When I get any request (government doc or otherwise) for a notarization & there is no notary cert on the document, I give the signer the choice of loose cert (jurat or ack) and let them choose. I advise them they should check with the document requester to make sure what sort of cert the requester requires.

Thankfully many companies are actually providing a notary cert on a separate page for the I-9s now. Some still do not.

I've never had a request for a RUS 282 but I would handle it the same way.

Reply by Robert522TX on 6/15/13 5:56pm
Msg #473493

I-9's have to be notarized? I haven't heard about that! n/m

Reply by ikando on 6/15/13 6:19pm
Msg #473495

Re: I-9's have to be notarized? I haven't heard about that!

I've read the government's instructions for both I-9 and RUS 282 forms, and NEITHER REQUIRES notarization. Many companies, however, have determined that they want a seal on these forms, and therefore require the signer to "get a notarization". There is no verbiage, and actually not even space to put any wording much less a seal, on these forms as they come from the government.

Reply by Robert522TX on 6/15/13 6:59pm
Msg #473501

Re: I-9's have to be notarized? I haven't heard about that!

Whew! thanks!

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 6/15/13 8:40pm
Msg #473511

Re: I-9's have to be notarized? I haven't heard about that!

I have been told that it is against the law in the state of Texas to notarize an I-9 form. There is a new two-page form out since May 7th which I have not seen yet, but I do not believe that it needs to be notarized, either.

Reply by Doris_CO on 6/15/13 8:59pm
Msg #473512

Marian in CA has written some great information on the I-9. If you do a search on I-9 you can read her remarks. I'm sure what she suggests for the I-9 can also be used for the RUS 282. She had some great info on her web site but I checked and she must be changing something because it's under construction.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/16/13 6:47am
Msg #473535

The I-9 is not the issue here either...it's the RUS 282

and this cannot go without comment because I'll be surprised if it's correct - "so we improvised by putting the verbiage on the back and my signature and stamp on the front."

I don't care what government instructions say - when doing any of this, your state's notarial laws reign. And I think what you did may be frowned upon by your SOS - I think the other poster is correct that your signature and stamp must accompany your certificate. If the signer is insisting on a notarization, fine...I would have attached a loose cert.

JMO

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/16/13 12:51pm
Msg #473557

I agree with Linda H, first thing I thought when I read the

initial post.

Reply by ikando on 6/16/13 6:33pm
Msg #473584

Re: The I-9 is not the issue here either...it's the RUS 282

Linda and others who commented on the legality of my notarization information on the back and my seal on the front of the document:

The person who was signing the document said his instructions were to get the form notarized on the front of the document, and no pages to be added.

Here is the form itself as it was presented to me. You'll see no room to add any verbiage.

http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/SupportDocuments/UTP_form_282.pdf

Here are the instructions for the Form RUS 282 from the internet. You'll note no comments regarding notarization requirement.

http://forms.sc.egov.usda.gov/eForms/instruction?FileType=TipInstruction&FileName=RUS282.HTML

I only complied with the instructions the signer conveyed to me by the party for whom he was signing the document, even though I recognized the form did not require notarization. The guy was flustered and trying to complete a contract. I was trying to help him out. I doubt, because it is a federal form, that the SOS would have any input other than to tell me it did not require notarization, which I already know.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/16/13 8:09pm
Msg #473599

Okay..so the form does not require notarization

(I did not look at forms - really not an issue here) but the signer insists it be notarized.

You do the notarization according to your state laws - not according to what the signer says is right. No improvising. You tell him "I can either attach a loose cert or, if that's not acceptable, put my cert on the back WITH my signature and stamp" - you don't separate them.

Sorry - the consumer doesn't call the shots when it comes to my following notarial law - I don't care HOW insistent they are.

Just out of curiosity, call your SOS tomorrow and ask them- I'd be curious to see if this is acceptable in your state.

JMO

Reply by Karla/OR on 6/17/13 2:48am
Msg #473612

Re: The I-9 is not the issue here either...it's the RUS 282

<<The person who was signing the document said his instructions were to get the form notarized on the front of the document, and no pages to be added.>>

My choice, too, would have been to offer a choice of loose leaf certs. I may have missed it in scanning the links you provided, but I did not see where it said that "no pages to be added."

Please correct me if I am wrong.