Posted by LisaWI on 6/11/13 8:33pm
Msg #472979

Just to Clear Up Some Misinformation on Skysail

Someone had posted that you are required to put all your signings through Skysail if you decide to go through them for payments. So, I emailed them just to clarify.....

Here is my question to them: "Hi, is it true that when using your service, you are supposed to use it for all your signings? Thank you......."

Their response:
"Hi Lisa, No you don't have to put all your clients though Fee Guarantee. Some have title company clients that pay immediately and don't wish to put those orders through our program. The only drawback is a minor one - for those orders you won't have coverage under the Skysail $1 million E&O."

Reply by Luckydog on 6/12/13 8:45am
Msg #473003

Well then the proverbial "horse's mouth" has changed their tune, because I spoke to Kris K directly when this first started in late Jan- Feb., and that is not what he told me. If that's case lets case put n the 45+ day clients only with them. If you are registered through any other notary sight such as notary ca** and such, you must change your billing address in there, and those who use that system for their completion reports use that to bill through. For myself, I have very few who I invoice directly, all go through a website a do a completion report. just curious, did they send you a contract? None listed anywhere when signing up, no fine print, and no way in hell I would turn over my money to someone without it all spelled out in writing somewhere. That is what I was told directly, 100% of my business is through them, and I am an employee of Skysail who will send me 1- 1099 at the end of the year. Just goes to show how manipulative they are, rules change per client they rope in.

Reply by LisaWI on 6/12/13 9:10am
Msg #473004

Hi LuckyDog.......not sure what your conversation was exactly with Skysail, but I think they do emphasize you CAN do all your invoices through them, NOT, you have to. It is a choice. In their advertising, they do stress that you can, not that you have to. They would love for everyone to use their system for this, but they know they cant do that, they can give you a choice, not demand it.

There is a contract, and terms of service right on their website. And it also states you are an independent contractor. They will indeed send you a 1099 OF ONLY the signings you received payment for through them.

I will have to investigate further, but I dont think you have to change your billing info on the coffee site, that wouldnt make any sense either. The W9 you send to SS's is directly to the SS you are doing business with, not the coffee site.

I dont think you are understanding their system correctly. Feel free to correct me if Im wrong.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/12/13 9:35am
Msg #473006

Not only would I want a signed agreement from them

as to all terms, but I'd especially want an indemnity agreement signed by THEM that they will NOT come back to me if they fail to collect from the SS or TC.

I have no intention of signing up with this service - but I would suggest that anyone who does have an ironclad non-recourse guarantee from them.

JMO

Reply by LisaWI on 6/12/13 9:51am
Msg #473008

Re: Not only would I want a signed agreement from them

Again, it should be up to each individual to CHOOSE if they want to do business with Skysail. But, it also each individual business person's right to do their own due diligence in making sure the contract, agreement, and all aspects of doing business with Skysail is to their expectations and complies with how they do business.

All I am trying to do is clear up misinformation that is being given in regards to this company, what people want to do with the information that is given to them is their choice. There should be some courtesy though in giving the right information on the company in question and this would apply to any company.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/12/13 10:06am
Msg #473010

Nothing against your post Lisa..sorry if you

took it that way - I'm just responding on what I'd do as part of the due diligence.

And JMHO

Reply by LisaWI on 6/12/13 10:16am
Msg #473012

Re: Nothing against your post Lisa..sorry if you

I agree with you Linda, I didnt take it that way.......everyone should make sure what they are doing with certain situations is to their expectations of doing business......

Your post is spot on.......others who are thinking of doing business with Skysail should be able to read others opinions on the situation........

Dialogue is a good thing, it helps others to make an informed decision.....

Reply by Luckydog on 6/12/13 11:32am
Msg #473016

Re: Nothing against your post Lisa..sorry if you

To each his own. When it first started Kris K. Formerly of KC Signing's told me that personally on a 45 minute telephone conversation, about his venture. It sounds good on the outside to get paid weekly, but seriously, how can a business make a profit, pay out E&O do all the bookkeeping, and they make a living on just 3%?? No business can operate on that a small margin to be secure, take all the risks, and insure your payment to you weekly. What if no one pays them? They have to go to collections, more out of pocket expenses. How do you expect to keep continuing to get paid, unless they have infinite pockets of money? I cannot function on 3% being a 1 person operation, so where is the money coming from for them to operate and secure your weekly payments? There has to be more to this, not going to speculate, but just have to read beneath or between the lines there is more to this than meets the eyes.

Reply by Negrete on 6/12/13 1:42pm
Msg #473034

I will NOT work with anone that uses that system. n/m

Reply by Negrete on 6/12/13 1:44pm
Msg #473035

Re: I will NOT work with anyone that uses that system. n/m

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 6/12/13 2:02pm
Msg #473038

Why not? n/m

Reply by JanelWI on 6/12/13 5:43pm
Msg #473081

Come on all....

Risk is a part of business, there is no more guarantee that a signing service will pay you anymore than Skysail will.

Everyone has to do what is in the best interest of their own signing business at the end of the day. As far as I am concerned a signing service also takes part of my potential fee by picking up the phone and scheduling a closing on behalf of a title company. They negotiate what fee they need to cover their notaries and themselves and offer us as little as possible to do the closing to maximize their profit margin per job. Most of us have been out of diapers for a long time, I know how to read instructions, I don't need a signing service to translate that for me or babysit me to see if I am there or not just to justify their fee, I don't need yet another layer between me and the title company giving vague, 10 mile long contradicting instructions and never answering their after hours phone number if on the off chance I do have a question. What a headache! That is why I only sign for a select few signing services....period. No, they are not all bad and many do pay a fair fee. But, in my opinion the ladder do not and they don't really care about experience. Low ball fee trumps experience nearly every time unless they are desperate and can't find anyone else.

Anyway...I do signings for a few very good signing services and only ones that meet the fee I require. I am sick of other signing services calling me complaining that the title company only pays XXX and I can only get XX to just quote "Help them out". What? help them to a portion of my fee that I did the work for and then wait 60 or more days to get it? Sorry, no thanks.

Signing services would not be in this business if they were not making money off the back of the industry in which they serve. What would be the incentive if there was no actual money to be made? The same can be said for Skysail. Just another opportunity to squeeze money out of the signing agent industry in yet another form.

So at the end of the day we have a choice and if a few signing agents see an opportunity to increase business by no longer turning down signing companies that pay...but take a long time to pay to increase volume and available cash flow......that is their choice.

Reply by Luckydog on 6/12/13 8:53pm
Msg #473122

Re: Come on all....

"Risk is a part of business, there is no more guarantee that a signing service will pay you anymore than Skysail will."

Absolutely, but that is one closing, not your entire business if they fail and keep your money. You never answered on how a business can operate on 3% profit - their expenses?

That is what I would like to know.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/12/13 9:26pm
Msg #473128

Why are you so hung up on how they make their money at 3%?

Why don't you ask them how they can stay in business only taking 3%.

If I can think of a couple of ways, why can't you?

Reply by JanelWI on 6/12/13 11:28pm
Msg #473140

Luckydog

First of all, I don't work for Skysail so obviously I can't answer that. I was not there when they wrote the business plan on their idea. I don't know what gave them this idea....Why don't you ask them? I don't ask a signing service how they make their money either, but I take work from them in the agreement that they pay. Perhaps I should ask a signing service what percentage they make off each closing to justify how they stay in business and pay their schedulers?

What is the incentive to signing services or any company that sees a potential need and tries to capitalize on it?....well, the obvious first allure would be money. I doubt signing services or Skysail's first thought was the greater good of the signing agent industry. The key question one should ask is will this leave the industry better than when it started? Hmmm....probably not. Most of the time these companies seek to siphon money, but not necessary work to improve the industry on the whole for everyone involved. So, Skysail is evil because you can't figure out how they can survive on a measly 3%? Why worry about it? You will have your answer very soon....most companies fail within the first five years....so give it time you may be proven right, or word will spread and they may become such a valuable resource to the unpaid "notary" that business may slowly rise and we will start seeing more companies flood the market with the same deal to ensure payment for a small fee.

I can go rounds vilifying signing services for the same thing. Over saturating the market, grabbing any idiot with a notary seal and calling them a certified signing agent....So....let's all stand on principle and refuse work from all these companies that seek to bottom feed for a percentage of the signing agent industry....yeah.....not likely....but, sometimes I think it would be nice to do direct work all the time. I know the closing instructions would be a lot shorter:-)

Earlier, I was mainly speaking in general terms about risk and the fact that signing service direct work poses the same risk. No, you do not have to put ALL your business through them; so the risk is one or two signings failing just the same through Skysail. For anyone in this business that puts all their "eggs" in one basket is rather foolish in my opinion. I would never consider doing that and over the years never have. 21+ with finance, real estate, closings, customer service, project management work, and executive administrative work is what keeps my boat afloat. I know that if I don't diversify my talent and continue my education as long as I am in the workforce, I won't survive. So all this knowledge helps me in this industry as well. I would never consider working for one company as a self employed individual. We are always looking for ways to bring in more money and more ways to ensure business success now and into the future. Why would Skysail or any other business be any different? Now, if a signing agent wants to put all their work through them....not my problem, nor my business.

I know of a lady that has a signing service that I will not name that has a coffee shop and real estate business in addition to her signing service business. Talk about irons in the fire! So, obviously perhaps they have other irons in the fire. I really don't care about the "life and times" of Skysail Group. My main point was if there is an option that helps signing agents negate risk and get paid for closings that take 45 or more days etc....then that is a personal choice unto each signing business owner or independent contractor.

We all have to do what we feel is of benefit to our individual business at the end of the day. I am also not saying your concerns are not valid, but in the world of business and risk management it is up to each business owner to educate themselves, weigh the risks and do what they feel will be in the best interest not only for their present situation but also keeping one eye on how decisions today will possibly impact future business.

Reply by Skysail Group, LLC on 6/13/13 1:56pm
Msg #473193

Re: Come on all....

I am a representative at Skysail Group.

The question at hand in this thread appears to be asking how our business model is able to function within the constraints of our revenues generated by the 3% fee on all deposits. There must be some catch?

First of all, on average Skysail Group is out the funds deposited in our members' account for about three weeks (which is about four weeks from the signing date on average). So, if we collect 3% on funds that are out in the "float" over three weeks and extrapolate that to an annualized return Skysail Group has a gross return of about 52% on it's capital (if we make 3% in three weeks then our return is approx. 1% per week or 52% a year).

So, @Luckydog and others, your real question is how are we able to make money if we are getting a 52% annualized return on our float funds. Do you have any credit cards? Typically they offer unsecured credit for 15 - 20% annualized APR and somehow they find a way to make money. Is it hard to envision our model as just as viable with a 52% gross return?

There are risks for us - certainly. But the question is are the risks significant enough to wipe out any potential for this model to be profitable...

Out biggest cost is our financing cost. We have a $1.5 million line of credit of which we pay interest on our outstanding balance. Our rate is adjusted based on prime, currently we are at 4.625% APR. This reduces our 52% return to just over 47%.

Our next biggest expense is uncollectible payments. One uncollected $100 payment wipes out 33 payments worth of our gross profit (33 x $3 on an average order = ~$100). So the question is: are more than 1 in 33 payments uncollectible? Ask yourself that question...are about 1 out of every 30 of your payments uncollectible? So far we haven't been experiencing that at all, not even close (about 1 in 200 payments are uncollectible so far and we are hoping to improve that even further).

What we are offering is convenience, peace of mind, consistency with payments, elimination of risk of non-payment, insurance, accounting (Notary Gadget like features to be released this winter), elimination of the stress and wasted resources related to chasing past due payments, and much more...all for 3%.

Some in this thread mentioned that they would be taking a risk with Skysail Group much the same as they would with a signing service or title company...while I appreciate this generic assessment I think that train of thought to be flawed. Think about this, who is really taking the risk here? Only Skysail Group. It is interesting that some in this thread are first confused how we could make any money because WE are taking on too much risk for a paltry 3% return and then in the same breath trying to say that they are taking a risk on us...they can't both be true at the same time.

You see we are paying our members up front - putting ourselves out there and taking on all the risk. Should we fail to make a payment to a member our member would know immediately that Wednesday that something is wrong. They would immediately update their clients with their individual W-9 once again and then the SS or TC would send them the payment that we failed to pay. In other words, the member is NEVER at risk of Skysail Group letting them down, the member always would know almost immediately if something was wrong and would have plenty of time to redirect their payments to their individual address.

For any further questions you can always contact us at [e-mail address] or call us at 888-418-4789.