Posted by Gregory/CA on 6/30/13 5:02pm
Msg #475207

QUESTION: Journal – Additional Information Field (REDACTION)

BACKGROUND:
While using a notary journal to log all my activities, I sometimes will use the remarks/comments section to provide some additional information for myself to remind me of questions, comments, concerns, issues, or behavior of signing parties that occurred during the signing session.

QUESTION:
In the event a properly issued request is made by an individual or through a subpoena duces tecum, is a Notary Public permitted to redact the remarks/comments section that pertains to personal notes about the signing session or must the entire record be copied in its original form?

Personally, I have a calendar of all my appointments and use the comments/notes section of the appointment for transcription of notes as well.

RESEARCHED:
By the way, I used the Orange Search Button to search the following Keywords/Phrases:
“REDACT” and found 17 messages with 294 responses and did not find a match to my QUESTION above.

“SUBPOENA” found 90 messages with 1483 responses, far too many to read, but perused the Titles.
Msg #436613 has general information for copying the record vs. the page, but does not address the exact question above about REDACTION.

Also, Marian posted about Government Code 8206, but didn’t necessary cover the QUESTION above.

Government Code 8206 (c) states, “Upon written request of any member of the public, which request shall include the name of the parties, the type of document, and the month and year in which notarized, the notary shall supply a photostatic copy of the line item representing the requested transaction at a cost of not more than thirty cents ($0.30) per page.”

Based on the above quote, which does not reference any printed comments of the Notary Public within the line entry, can the notes of the Notary Public be redacted during a copy of the journal entry which will leave the necessary information of the notary act, which includes, but is not limited to; the type of document, date, time, signature, etc.?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/30/13 5:30pm
Msg #475209

Funny you should ask that. I have wondered the same thing about Texas notary journals....even thought of it today.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/30/13 7:16pm
Msg #475213

Great question. I've never seen that addressed, either, so I would presume that that would be a judgment call each notary would need to make on their own. It's hard to know with any certainty what we would do until we're actually faced with the choice, but I would think that we would only be required to disclose whatever information we're required by law to collect. If you do carefully redact personal notes, who's going to know?

I'm not an attorney - and not having to deal with that issue - so this is just supposition, not advice. I have no idea what other legal implications there might be to this. (In theory, though, you could just as easily have recorded any extra comments somewhere else.)

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/30/13 8:27pm
Msg #475220

To me, your question turns on 1. "shall include", because

it does not limit the information [i.e., "shall include only the following"] and 2. because in fact, the SDT specifies "a photostatic copy of the line item."

I would submit exactly what was requested: the entire line item(s), and redact all other lines on the page.

The requester, and possibly a judge, would certainly question a redaction by a Notary Public on a subpoenaed line item journal entry. JMHO

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/30/13 10:53pm
Msg #475226

I agree with Janet

We're probably only required to disclose what we are required to collect.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/13 11:05pm
Msg #475228

That is a good question. Theoretically, as the others have said it makes sense that you'd only divulge what you are required to collect by state law.

But in practice, if you sent a copy of a line item with redaction, it might look funny. Also, it doesn't prevent that information from being seen outright in the event that your journal is seized by law enforcement or audited by the Secretary of State.

Also, when you're certifying a copy of a line entry, you're certifying that the copy you're sending a a true of of that entry. If you're redacting something, is it still an exact copy?

I think this might be a good reason to consider journaling practices aside from the required elements. Maybe keep another record? For example, I tend to keep more extensive notes in my billing program when I create invoices for each job. Yes, while many signing services don't want invoices... I always create an entry in Quickbooks just to keep my books straight. If I don't actually generate an invoice, fine, but the record of the transaction is still there. That's just an idea.

I think the best way to avoid sending somebody unintended notes is to not put the notes there to begin with... put them elsewhere.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/13 11:54pm
Msg #475232

BTW.... this also reiterates the fact that even though our journals are our exclusive property, we are still public officials and those records are considered a matter of public record, within the limits set by state law. Any member of the public can request a copy of a line item if they request it in writing, supplying the basic details... and state law requires us to respond within a set time frame. A subpoena is not required unless the request exceeds the allowable requests set by state law. For example, for those notaries who do notarizations on behalf of their employer... state law allows said employers to requests copies of those pages. In that case if the notary has transaction that are not related to that employer's business (such as notarizations done in the even after work), then I could see a good reason to redact those particular entries since they don't pertain to the employer.

It does make me reconsider what information I keep in the required journal. We can always record more specific details in another format for our personal/business records outside of what is legally required. Those records would not be considered public record and couldn't be accessed without more legal intervention.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/30/13 11:43pm
Msg #475231

Good Question Gregory. Lots of discussion about this lately in the news. They're finding some-law-enforcement doing it, IRS and schools doing it on different levels.

My view would be if the public has a right to know then it shouldn't be done (Redaction) but like Marian mention probably shouldn't be done in the first place. My .02

FWIW, there is redaction software available so somebody's doing it.

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/1/13 12:41am
Msg #475235

I have always kept personal notations attached to the

confirmation for each job that is kept in a folder labeled with the company name I did the signing for. I also keep a running ledger of each job with date, name of signor, address, mileage and amount due and that is how I keep track of my accounts receivables. It works well for me and if I should ever be asked for a copy of a line item in my journal, only the required information would be given.