Posted by Notarysigner on 6/5/13 9:02pm
Msg #472400

Question for the knowledgible ones.....two

1. Do you know which state has the most stringent Notary Laws?

2. On the 1003 2/3 down on right hand side there a section says Estate will be held in..and there are two choices (1) Fee Simple and (2) Leasehold.
My question is what does Fee Simple mean?

Borrower asked,...SS didn't know answer, TC didn't know answer.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/5/13 9:03pm
Msg #472401

should be knowledgeable n/m

Reply by Bip on 6/5/13 9:17pm
Msg #472403

Describes the Title Holder

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/5/13 9:28pm
Msg #472406

NOT! n/m

Reply by Laurie Manzanares on 6/5/13 9:21pm
Msg #472404

Fee Simple:

Definition: The law recognizes this form of estate (ownership) in real estate as the highest form. The property owner is entitled to full enjoyment of the property, limited only by zoning laws, deed or subdivision restrictions or covenants.
The duration of this ownership is not limited and can be passed along in a will to the owner's heirs.

Also Known As: "fee ownership" and "estate of inheritance"

Hope this helps

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/5/13 9:29pm
Msg #472407

Thanks, can I ask for your source? Please

Reply by ikando on 6/5/13 9:22pm
Msg #472405

Google is your friend.

fee simple n. absolute title to land, free of any other claims against the title, which one can sell or pass to another by will or inheritance. This is a redundant form of "fee," but is used to show the fee (absolute title) is not a "conditional fee," or "determinable fee," or "fee tail." Like "fee" it is often used in deeds transferring title as in "Harry Hadit grants to Robert Gotit title in fee simple..." or similar words.

leasehold n. the real estate which is the subject of a lease (a written rental agreement for an extended period of time). The term is commonly used to describe improvements on real property when the improvements are built on land owned by one party which is leased for a long term (such as 99 years) to the owner of the building.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/5/13 9:31pm
Msg #472408

Thanks for your answer, honestly looking for the source.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/5/13 9:59pm
Msg #472410

Google: fee simple Many sources recite almost

verbatim what Laurie and others stated.

Don't shoot the messenger - the first page brings up so much:

Fee simple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_simple‎
In English law, a fee simple (or fee simple absolute) is an estate in land, a form of freehold ownership. It is the way that real estate is owned in common law ...
‎History - ‎Common law - ‎Duration - ‎Creation and characteristic of ...

fee simple - Legal Dictionary - The Free Dictionary
legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fee+simple‎
Definition of fee simple in the Legal Dictionary - by Free online English dictionary and encyclopedia. What is fee simple? Meaning of fee simple as a legal term.
You've visited this page 2 times. Last visit: 6/5/13

Fee Simple vs Leasehold Ownership - Zillow Advice
www.zillow.com/wikipages/Fee-Simple-vs-Leasehold-Ownership/‎
Oct 12, 2012 – Most people only know of one type of real estate ownership; fee simple, also known as freehold. There are a handful of states that have another ...

What is Fee Simple ? - Mortgage News Daily
qna.mortgagenewsdaily.com/questions/what-is-fee-simple‎
Jan 8, 2010 – Fee Simple is a legal form of ownership. This is the most common form of real estate title. In a fee simple ownership, you have “absolute ...
You've visited this page 2 times. Last visit: 6/5/13

fee simple determinable - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fee_simple_determinable‎
Joe gives Mike an estate in land "so long as no alcohol is brought onto the property"; this creates a fee simple determinable - if alcohol is brought onto the ...

Fee Simple Definition | Redfin
www.redfin.com › Real Estate Glossary › F Terms‎

Jan 7, 2011 – Fee Simple. Fee simple is the most common type of land ownership, meaning that the owners have complete ownership of the land and the ...

You can see I used The Legal Dictionary twice and Mortgage News Daily twice as well, in an attempt to stay away from Wiki and Zillow. These are common terms yet may vary by state law. Since LA is based upon a somewhat different system, I wouldn't rely on traditional English law precedent without checking further.

Reply by notarydi/CA on 6/6/13 9:26am
Msg #472420

declined a loan once because it was leased land.....

my first job was at Safeco Title. Everyone was required to take a title class and learn terminology. Fee simple....you basically own the land......Leasehold....you are leasing the land......typically, you will see leased land in areas such as Palm Springs and surrounding areas that the land is owned by Native American tribal nations. It is also not uncommon to see it in Huntington Beach with a big oil/gas company (Chevron) as the leasehold owner.

Used to be FNMA/FHLMC required the leasehold expiration date to be five years past the term of the loan. So, on a 30 year loan written today the leasehold expiration date would need to be 2048.

I declined a loan once when I was underwriting because the leasehold was expiring in 2 years from when the borr was trying to take out the loan. Whole condo project turned out to be a big nightmare as the tribal nation was not wanting to renew the lease.....and, Fannie would not buy the loans and lenders got stuck with unsaleable loans.

apologies, if this was TMI......

Reply by linda/ca on 6/6/13 4:23pm
Msg #472471

Not TMI, Notarydi/CA, simple and interesting comment;thanks! n/m

Reply by Marazz/AZ on 6/5/13 10:05pm
Msg #472411

Here is an online dictionary.
http://www.realestateabc.com/glossary/
Appraisers frequently quote the Fifth Edition of the Dictionary of Real Estate put out by the Appraisal Institute, but it's not a free book (or available online).

Fee simple vs leasehold is one of the most basic concepts of real estate. If someone at a title company didn't know what they meant, I would find another title company. This defines what rights are conveyed.

There are a few places in AZ where people have built homes (and entire town home complexes) on land that belongs to Native American nations. They might get a 50 year lease or 99 year lease, and sometimes those leases can be renewed.

Reply by Jack/AL on 6/5/13 10:43pm
Msg #472412

Much of the land in Hawaii is held in leasehold.

Although the original leases were/are typically for 99 years, the remaining years obviously decrease as time goes by. Sometimes, what might seem like a low asking price might not be so good, if there are not many years remaining on the lease. For example, you might think the seller is asking a low price for a property (and everything permanently attached to it), but then you find out there are only 20 years left on the lease. That means that if you buy the property, in 20 years you could lose all claim to possession and use, unless you are then able to negotiate a new less, at perhaps at very high price. Leasehold really means that you have a lease, although perhaps for a very long period, but do not own it outright.

Reply by jnew on 6/6/13 8:17am
Msg #472418

A title policy will insure the owner's interest in the property. If there is no lease, the ownership is fee simple. Under a lease the policy will insure the ownership of the lessee or the lessor as a leasehold interest or subject to the terms of the lease. Fee simple ownership means that you have an ownership subject to the rights of the government in land. That is why general taxes are never removed as an exception to title, since the government never loses its rights to tax the property. Fee simple title is an extension of English common law. This was the standard answer we used at the title company and a lot of the new title people are uneducated dimwits who lack the knowledge necessary to do their job properly.

Reply by EileenHI on 6/6/13 1:09pm
Msg #472436

When buying in Hawaii, there is a lot of leasehold property. If you choose to purchase a leasehold, be aware of the lease rental you will pay for the land, along with the mortgage on the building. Watch for the expiration date of the lease because at the expiration date the lease will be renegotiated or you may be forced to purchase the property, often at hundreds of thousands of dollars (particularly if ocean front).

Fee-simple usually means that you own the building and land it sits on free and clear (well, except for the mortgage of course, if you have one).

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/6/13 1:13pm
Msg #472437

Thanks all, I can't believe that GUY at TC didn't know that! n/m