Posted by droman_IL on 6/20/13 3:52pm
Msg #474124

Quite annoyed with Servicelink wanting us to fill in vesting

language on the mortgage notarial certificate. Is this not the job of the lender to prepare the documents the way they need to be recorded? Even if the package comes over from the lender without it, then why wouldn't SL prepare that page with the necessary language before scanning it over to us? I realize it takes two seconds to write it in, and I realize other notaries don't take issue with filling in this language, but my understanding is doing that is UPL, as that is prescribing part of the notarial language, which, unless we are attorneys, we are prohibited from doing. Our state clearly only allows us to "fill in" the notarial certificate (venue, names, dates.) Anything else is putting my commission in jeopardy, which I'm not willing to do. Anyone else has any insight to this?

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/20/13 5:04pm
Msg #474130

" Our state clearly only allows us to "fill in" the notarial certificate (venue, names, dates.)" Really? The Illinois notary manual only seems to suggest certificate language, not require any particular language. What makes you think you write the certificate?

And what is "vesting language"? Some language might be OK for a notary to verify (for example, "Jim Smith formerly known as Peter Smith", if that can be proven by means acceptable in the notary's state). Other language might not be appropriate for a notary to put in a certificate, depending on the state.

Reply by gaby on 6/20/13 5:29pm
Msg #474132

"Vesting language" would be...: a single man, a single woman, husband and wife as joint tenants....etc...usually found on Page 1 of the Deed of Trust

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/20/13 6:01pm
Msg #474135

Meant to write "you think you CAN'T write the certificate?" n/m

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 6/20/13 8:31pm
Msg #474156

Is SL actrually instructing you to include vesting in cert?

I have not been asked to do that.
I do really, really dislike it when lender/title/whoever tells me how to fill out my certs!
I get DOT/mortgage certs that are blank all the time and much prefer to the one I got today that was pre-filled with only "revocable living trust of Bobby Borrower." so what here, am I notarizing that the trust signed the doc? I think not!! I be notarizing a person!
sorry I digress. so, exactly what is SL asking you do? fill a blank or write in vesting?

Reply by droman_IL on 6/20/13 11:34pm
Msg #474181

Re: Is SL actrually instructing you to include vesting in cert?

I take no issue to filling in the blanks, which is what the manual says we can do, to complete the notarization. However, SL is asking us to write in title vesting language, meaning, jane doe and john doe, husband and wife, as joint tenants in common, with rights of survivorship... yada, yada, yada. That is not something a notary has the capacity to do, unless they are a lawyer, which I am not.

Section 6-104 (h) of the Illinois notary handbook clearly states:
"No notary public shall be authorized to prepare any legal instrument, or fill in
the blanks of an instrument, other than a notary certificate; however, this prohibition shall not prohibit an attorney, who is also a notary public, from performing notarial acts for any document prepared by that attorney."
So this clearly says I can only fill in the blanks of the notary certificate, but I cannot prepare any legal instrument, unless I am the attorney who prepared the document. Filling in legal language indicating the vesting of the title on the notarial certificate is preparing the document to be recorded. In addition, I can not attest to the state of someone's marriage, status of their tenancy, etc, etc. This is a legal issue, not a notarization issue. The notarization can take place whether or not that vesting language is there. For ME to write it in would constitute UPL. If I WERE an attorney, I would still be reluctant to write it in, given that the handbook says an attorney can prepare the document and notarize it, if THEY were the ones who prepared the document. Even in this case, I wouldn't have prepared the document, so I wouldn't be able to write it in either.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 6/21/13 1:35am
Msg #474189

I agree with you for the most part. we aren't confirming

vesting, marital status, whatever. We are only witnessing signatures and applying oaths. I am seeing more of this auto filled gobblydegoop in my certs and it does not please me!!
as I said, I haven't seen that from SL-maybe I've been lucky or maybe oblivious time will tell....
omg! I just remembered getting a call a couple months ago with a request to add something to my cert. I said no, the guy said I would get a call from quality control but I never heard anymore about it and a supervisor said I had no quality control issues-maybe he added it anyway.

I am curious though, what you are doing with this request? If the cert is pre-filled with "jane doe and john doe, husband and wife, as joint tenants in common, with rights of survivorship... yada, yada" are you signing, changing, adding loose cert? In other words, are you adding the verbiage as instructed?
Maybe its time to be having the "certificate is my domain" discussion with them and explain what your state law allows. When I resort to this, I also stress that I know they want the document to be legal and perfect their lien. If need be, I quote my sos and offer them the phone number to confirm.

sorry for the rambling response. its late, must go to bed

Reply by SharonMN on 6/21/13 5:47pm
Msg #474276

In Minnesota we are REQUIRED to include "Husband and wife"

I don't think the "joint tenants" etc. is required to be in the notary certificate at all. I've worked with Service Link in the past and never had them request me to fill that in. I will leave it if preprinted but would not write it in on my own.

In MN the notary is required to include "husband and wife" on acknowledgements if both husband and wife are signing the doc. (MN STATUTES: 358.14 MARRIED PERSONS. No separate examination of each spouse shall be required, but if husband and wife join in and acknowledge the execution of any instrument, they shall be described in the certificate of acknowledgment as husband and wife; and, if they acknowledge it before different officers, or before the same officer at different times, each shall be described in the certificate as the spouse of the other.)

We also typically include capacity if applicable - e.g. "by John Doe as President of XYZ Company" or "by John Doe as Trustee of the XYZ Trust" (MN STATUTES 358.48 SHORT FORMS)

In both cases I just take the person's word for it that they are really husband and wife, or president or trustee. We are not required to determine that.

Reply by Tudi/CA on 6/21/13 1:43am
Msg #474190

Re: Quite annoyed

When I run across this situation, I write on the notary signature line "see California compliant Jurat" or "see California compliant acknowledgement". Then I attach the proper certificate and fill it out per California requirements, with just the names and not the vesting.
I haven't had any documents returned over it, nor any complaints.

Reply by droman_IL on 6/21/13 2:32am
Msg #474195

Re: Quite annoyed

So far I've been telling them I am not allowed to do it, and I've written a post-it note on the mortgage recording page letting them know. I've received two calls from them already telling me it's a new requirement for Illinois, and each time I've told them it's prohibited for us to do, but they can feel free to add it in once I send it back to them.

Apparently, some parts of Illinois are requiring the vesting language to be in the cert in order for it to be recorded, or they reject it. If it's on there already, I don't cross it off, I just fill in the blanks that I'm supposed to and notarize. Guess I'll see what comes of it.

Reply by VT_Syrup on 6/21/13 7:38am
Msg #474201

Re: Quite annoyed

I don't agree with droman_IL's interpretation of ""No notary public shall be authorized to prepare any legal instrument, or fill in the blanks of an instrument, other than a notary certificate;". I think this means that if a notary is provided with a notarial certificate with blanks the notary can fill them in, BUT, since other parts of the law require a notary to make out a certificate and specify what should be in the certificate, it is up to the notary to make sure the entire certificate is correct, whether the notary fills in a few blanks, or writes it from scratch. Thus, if someone else put in the language about joint tenants, it is up to the notary to decide if that language belongs in the cert or not, and add a loose cert that the notary is convinced is correct if not satisfied with the certificate provided by the lender or title co.

I wonder what the recorder would do if a mortgage came in that was signed on different days before different notaries? In that case, it would be impossible to name both signers in the same certificate.