Posted by ikando on 6/17/13 12:45pm
Msg #473651
Settleware aka Notarycam.com
Yes, this is the same group that says it's legal to have documents notarized without the signer and notary being in the same place. Here's their latest PR.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/6/prweb10828517.htm
I happen to have a distant relationship with Diana Ennen, who is the PR person for this company. I thought I might contact her to let her know that she is aiding the spread of false information. What is the general consensus?
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Reply by Lee/AR on 6/17/13 12:54pm
Msg #473653
What do you have to lose?
Do I think that will stop it? No.
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Reply by Linda_in_MI on 6/17/13 1:07pm
Msg #473655
Want to know the general consensus? Do a search on webcam, VA online, or online notarizations. There has been quite a bit of discussion. The most recent post I am aware of about this particular company was a thread I started last week. It's at Msg #473283.
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Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/17/13 1:54pm
Msg #473662
Diana is their PR person? Oh, boy. 
I know of her through the Virtual Assistant world, even met her once at a conference in Portland. She's also a paralegal.
I think I might send her a note as well.
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Reply by ikando on 6/17/13 2:45pm
Msg #473671
Marian, that's how I know her, too. I have her VA training, and follow her on several forums. I don't think it would be bad for more than one of us to contact her.
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Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/17/13 4:37pm
Msg #473688
Agreed... especially people that know her and her work or that have a history with her. I'm a member of several groups where she is also a member, so I'll send her a note, too. I'm sure these guys just hired her to handle their PR. She does know how to write press releases.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 6/17/13 3:05pm
Msg #473673
One issue: What about the price? Is $19.97 OK in Va?
I am very interested in knowing the answer to this.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/17/13 3:13pm
Msg #473676
Re: One issue: What about the price? Is $19.97 OK in Va?
I think enotarization (not to be confused with webcam) can charge $25, sorry that probably doesn't answer your question. Regular notarization the fee allowed is $5.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/17/13 3:21pm
Msg #473679
Re: One issue: What about the price? Is $19.97 OK in Va?
Just glanced at our handbook, it's 32 pages and makes my eyes bleed. I didn't see fees addressed at all with regard to webcam notarizations - not saying it isn't there, I just didn't see it.
http://www.commonwealth.virginia.gov/Notary/NotaryHandbook.pdf
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Reply by BrendaTx on 6/17/13 4:02pm
Msg #473683
I have never found it. That is why I still believe that the
webcam notarizations were not created public consumption across state lines, but rather that they were for internal government use.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/17/13 4:17pm
Msg #473685
Re: I have never found it. That is why I still believe that the
Really, this is hard for me to read and I don't have time right now but if you look at page 8&9 in the handbook it should shed some light.
SATISFACTORY EVIDENCE OF THE SIGNER’S IDENTITY ELECTRONIC NOTARIZATION
(§ 47.12)
Remote notarization requires a very high threshold for identity assurance. Not only MUST there be a video and audio feed, the notary public will be REQUIRED to assure the identity of the signer by one of the following three options:
1) Personal knowledge. This is already allowed under Virginia law. Simply put, if the notary knows the signer, that will satisfy this requirement.
2) Reliance on prior inperson identity proofing by a third party such as an employer, a law firm, or a bank. Otherwise known as antecedent proofing, this security standard relies upon a prior trust relationship having been created between the signer and a third party. This standard is gaining wide application in electronic commerce.
3) The signer has a digital certificate that is authenticated either by (i) biometrics or (ii) a Personal Identity Verification (PIV) or PIVI card issued in conformance with strict government standards from the National Institute of Standards and Technology. The use of PIV and PIVI cards is becoming more prevalent in the public and private sectors. This is as trustworthy and reliable a security standard as can be found currently. The federal government uses this standard in issuing identifications to federal employees and government contractors as well for trusting the identity of emergency first responders.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 6/17/13 4:28pm
Msg #473686
Yes, I have read that several times. n/m
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Reply by MW/VA on 6/17/13 5:19pm
Msg #473701
Yes, to quote from their article "This ground breaking
legislation authorizes Virginia notaries to legally notarize any signature within any state with video-audio technology. Online notarizations are now available in 50 states and can be executed anywhere in the world.
The "legally notarize any signature within any state" is completely untrue. IMO they took this opening in VA law & just ran with it. Because of them & others like them, I wouldn't go anywhere near the Electronic Notary available in this state.
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Reply by MW/VA on 6/17/13 5:24pm
Msg #473703
I think the only option might be to have someone use the
service & then report them. This is a runaway train & I don't know how anyone is going to stop it.
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Reply by Lee/AR on 6/17/13 5:57pm
Msg #473708
Runaway train leads to train wreck...
VA started it--with a lot of unavailable-for-general-notary-purposes stipulations/parameters on who/how/when it can be used. I think VA ought to be the entity who must stop this nonsense.
Are they hoodwinking VA notaries to do this? Looking at their site, it would seem so.
How one can get thru to the powers-that-be--whew--that's a whole nother situation. Perhaps the VA SOS can stop 'em. But--will they? I'm also quite sure that the VA SOS wouldn't give much weight to a bunch of out-of-state notaries complaining~~
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Reply by FGX/NJ on 6/17/13 6:17pm
Msg #473712
Re: Runaway train leads to train wreck...
Unintended consequences of legislation.
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Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/17/13 7:05pm
Msg #473719
Agree, and by the same token, Oregon doesn't care what VA
passes, it has no effect on Oregon's law. I seriously doubt comity by non-conforming states. Personal appearance is in the flesh and face to face in the stated jurisdiction. Trying to circumvent that doctrine under the umbrella of Interstate Commerce would surely fail, since it does nothing to further strengthen the auspices of the UCC, and in fact, to me, works instead to diminish the security of intra-state real estate transactions . jmho.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/17/13 8:15pm
Msg #473725
Okay, I have several problems with this
I have always wanted to take a bite. Maybe a simple poa and see what happens? It's going to cost me $20 do I want to invest that to figure these people out....yes. Do I want to make them privy to whatever they need to ID me, I'm not sure...the brakes might come on. Let you know. To be Continued......
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Reply by ikando on 6/17/13 8:20pm
Msg #473726
Re: Okay, I have several problems with this
anotaryinva, I applaud you're bravery in stepping up to see what happens. But since you're in VA, will that actually tell the tale? Someone in another state would seem to be a more logical true test, IMO.
And others who know Diana, thank you for letting her know what you know.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/17/13 8:38pm
Msg #473730
Re: Okay, I have several problems with this
Yes you are right, it would be a true test for someone out of state to take this for a test drive. I would like to do it just because its my backyard. The problem I have is figuring out what to do once they 'notarize' the doc. If it's a poa I get, who do I go to to prove it will be accepted? I've only had to use a poa once and it was at the DMV when my son sold his motorcycle and forgot to let them know, he was at college and wasn't able to walk in....it's a long story. The true test will be to get the notarization and then get it accepted by whatever party is requiring it.
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Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/17/13 9:16pm
Msg #473733
Re: Okay, I have several problems with this
This might give you a good idea of how their system is set up externally, but unfortunately I don't think it would be a good test of anything. Let's face it, how many improperly notarized documents are already out there in the world because someone used the wrong certificate, left off a critical bit of info, forgot to add a date or name or stamp, or used an expired one...? (You could all probably add to that list.) That, of course, doesn't mean it's OK. It just means that sometimes they get away with these things because either no one notices or no one cares.
BUT what if one of those does end up mattering some day to someone? I'd like to think that few of us would be in this business if we didn't care about the process. It would bother me a lot if someone ended up suffering major consequences from falling for that flagrantly false advertising (and as we know, there ARE consequences tied to the documents with the signatures we all notarize).
I suspect this may need to be addressed on the federal level, since we're potentially talking about transactions crossing state lines. I'm not sure what agency would have jurisdiction and frankly don't have time to research it, but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who may have some ideas about that.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 6/18/13 7:04am
Msg #473771
Wet signature vs. electronic signature (Webcam)
If it is a document that will be notarized (via webcam) and secured by the notary after notarizing, the document proves itself to be secure only as long as it is in electronic form and the electronic seal is unbroken.
If it is to be recorded at a courthouse, my opinion is that it will be rejected for notarization in printed form. Printing a document out that is electronically notarized (and secured electronically) produces a mere copy of the secure electronic document. It would be like recording a copy of a signed deed. The deed would not have a wet signature. The same is true for an electronic notarization performed by a webcam notary.
However, if it is to be recorded electronically it MIGHT be accepted in another state if it is transmitted to the recording clerk by following the recording clerk's specifications and instructions via electronic means so that the document has its seal in tact.
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Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/17/13 8:33pm
Msg #473729
Re: Okay, I have several problems with this
I'm still trying to figure out how they handle the identification part of it. If the person is not personally known to the notary or has established some prior relationship per the guidelines then they have to identify the person through biometrics or the PIV credentials... which isn't exactly easy to do... and is really for government employees or contractors. Like others have stated, it seems that the intent of this was to make electronic notarization easier for government officials and certain agencies who do a lot of regular notarizations where the notary personally knows the signer or has a working relationship with them. I can see the usefulness of that kind of thing. I can also see this as useful for government officials who may be stationed in remote areas and don't have in-person access to a notary, or perhaps for members of the military who are deployed. That all makes sense to me.
I do NOT think this was intended for the general public and one-off notarizations where there is no established relationship or history. I sure with VA would get this clarified, because it seems like a clear abuse of the law and an overly creative interpretation.
If you think about it... it might also just look weird. Let's say the signer is in Idaho. The document requester is in Oregon. The document requester gets the paperwork and it's got a Virginia notary seal on it. It just looks a little weird, at first, to see that, and I would probably question it for sure, knowing the signer was in Idaho, not Virginia.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 6/18/13 7:12am
Msg #473772
Here are other problems
1-My opinion is that Marian is right that this company has not yet established the proper procedure for identifying signers (if they have not done a complete overhaul).
2-Possession and control over records. As I recall, the laws in Va. regarding webcam notaries require them to have possession of their notary records. That would mean that the notaries themselves would have to have complete control of the system that is being used for A/V presence of the notary and signer. Those behaving lawfully would need to possess and have under their sole control a very sophisticated and secure system. I believe that I recall that there are other rules for the govt. notaries.
I believe that the contractual system that has been engaged by the company is falling short of this.
The secure connection between the notary and the signer is only a fraction of the requirements.
3-We learned last year there are attorney(s) who formerly worked for the xyz and they have created a platform for webcam notarization. They have megabucks. I think that if it was ready for prime time, it would have been rolled out. They know the laws and I think they are waiting for a reason.
Take all of the above with a grain of salt. I have not researched it within the last six months.
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Reply by anotaryinva on 6/18/13 10:32am
Msg #473799
Re: Here are other problems
I just went to their website after reading comments on another forum. It says they use 3rd party verification. The poster had said they ask a series of questions to determine if the person is who they say. Last week my American Express card had a couple of fraud alerts, Amex called me. They asked me to confirm the usual things then asked me three multiple choice questions about my past. One question was which of these addresses have you ever been associated with. The one that was correct was my childhood address from over 30 years ago. The Amex rep explained that the questions were all public record but only I would be able to answer them....huh? If they are a public record and someone was determined to impersonate me they would have the answers too. Sounds like that is what the webcammmers are using for the general public.
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