Posted by gotogirl on 6/25/13 8:50pm
Msg #474719

first odd notary client

Few days ago fellow Notaries, I had my 1st weird Notary job. The wife calls to set appointment between her husband (landlord) and they're tenant. The 3 show up and hand me 2 copies of a lease agreement without notary instructions. The husband wants the lease notarized which I do.The husband is unhappy with acknowledgement and having his i.d. and thumbprint entered into journal. Appeared offended as I inspect his id, and his face side by side. Stating rudely, t he made it just this morning on his computer. Secondly, he expressed resentment and demanded to know why I did not enter the tenant in my journal or charge $10 more. The landlord was the party giving consent to someone else to use his property for whatever arrangement between them.Therefore entering a second party seemed dishonest of me simply to make a extra 10, I'm not that type of Notary. Next the grumpy man (landlord) asked why I did'nt charge the 2nd guy which I tried explain was'nt required. The grumpy husband (landlord) asked "Since when did the law change" and Notaries had to be in front of you to identify a signer. This was after he grabbed his id card off my clipboard as I was entering his id into the journal. He began reading the calif i.d. number and details to me as I stopped the job and clarified my main job is to id him, inspect the details myself and enter the clients id into my journal that I actually seen, verified and witnessed with my own eyes. Oh he was outraged, his lovely wife added she was once a Notary. I smiled and waited for his id back in my hand before proceeding and listened as he added that he bought property in Denver while only signing and standing before a notary in California. That he should'nt have to miss work over this, and so forth. His wife & I assured im that its a requirement to be present before a notary. That the notary in denver was doing a split signing for the second party on that paperwork who stood in front of them in denver and that he had a California notary only witbness his behalf here where he stood at the time. Long story short he lefted saying I'll see you in court. What mre can I do or say? #1 if he wanted more than a acknowledgement of the lease signing he did'nt express it clearly to me and it's not my place and it is against the law to tell him what he needs. I am not a lawyer, secondly I will not change s.o.s. rules and requirements for anyone or go to jail for them either. To enter a party in my book that is not a principal on doc and charge extra fee is theft and I will not compromise. So, basically I was polite, professional and stood my ground and was disappointed to have a client leave angry it just felt very weird even now.

what would you do? who has done a lease agreement between landlord and tenant?
I did'nt disclose I was a extra special signing agent from Notary2 Pro and Notary Rotary because he did'nt ask. My point is he wanted a battle, I did'nt give it. He wanted power over the appointment he could'nt have it. I know the difference between a acknowledgement and witnessing a agreement and a loan doc signing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/25/13 9:06pm
Msg #474721

Re: first odd notary client...very briefly because wow

If they came to you to have the lease agreement notarized - why did you not notarize the signature of the tenant?

"The landlord was the party giving consent to someone else to use his property for whatever arrangement between them.Therefore entering a second party seemed dishonest of me simply to make a extra 10, I'm not that type of Notary. Next the grumpy man (landlord) asked why I did'nt charge the 2nd guy which I tried explain was'nt required" -

Not your call where notarization is required and where it's not - they wanted both parties' signatures notarized, that's what you do - and charge accordingly.

"To enter a party in my book that is not a principal on doc and charge extra fee is theft and I will not compromise"

If the tenant was there, with ID, as indicated by your post - then I don't see the problem. The tenant is just as much a party to the agreement as the landlord.

Also, does a lease agreement fall under the purview of CA's laws regarding thumbprints? Are they required for lease agreements?

By the way - good thing you didn't say you were an "extra special signing agent from Notary2Pro and Notary Rotary" - it's wouldn't have meant a hill of beans to him - and you should know you're not "extra special" just by virtue of those designations.

IMO you should have notarized the signatures of both parties.

JMO

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/25/13 9:36pm
Msg #474725

Re: first odd notary client...very briefly because wow

I agree, Linda. As has been said here a bazillion times, we notarize signatures, not documents and it's not up to us to decide who should sign a document or who the principals are in a transaction. That would be UPL.

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/25/13 9:51pm
Msg #474727

Totally agree with Linda H and Janet K, & none of us are

"extra special" I am afraid.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/26/13 9:40am
Msg #474760

not 100% sure but we may even be able to

notarize a dead person's signature using credible witnesses and/or signature by mark?

Reply by jba/fl on 6/26/13 11:44am
Msg #474776

or just plain fraud. n/m

Reply by SharonMN on 6/26/13 11:36am
Msg #474774

Re: first odd notary client...very briefly because wow

OK, I'm going to defend gotogirl here. It sounds to me like she did a pretty good job of standing firm and not letting the (confused) client boss her around. She says that the "lease agreement" was a consent signed by the landlord. I'm not at all clear whether the tenant signed the document. If the tenant did not sign the document, she could not notarize the tenant's signature.

Sounds like the client wanted her to "make the document legal" somehow. It sounds like she did her best to explain to the client what a notary's job entailed (ID and witness signatures), and if the client did not understand that, it's not her fault. (She might have also reminded them that she offers mobile service so would have been happy to travel to the husband's work so he wouldn't have to miss work.)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/27/13 8:20pm
Msg #474925

Re: first odd notary client...very briefly because wow

Good point, Sharon. We may have all been making assumptions that might not be the case, as gotogirl was the only one who actually saw the document. It would clarify this situation greatly to know whose signatures were on the document.

I would expect that the most likely scenario would be that there was a copy to be signed by each party - or two copies to be signed by both - but unless we were there, we can't assume that.

Reply by Sandra G Holland on 6/25/13 9:10pm
Msg #474722

Men, hold your ears while I whisper this into gotogirl's ears: Some men just like to be in control of every situation, especially if there is a woman they feel they can dominate.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 6/25/13 9:32pm
Msg #474724

Agree with Linda H/FL.

Both landlord and tenant are parties to lease. Both sign lease and, IMO, both would be notarized.

To answer Linda's query: Thumbprint required for any document affecting real property or for a POA.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/25/13 9:55pm
Msg #474729

It's called the Alpha Male, Sandra! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 6/25/13 9:59pm
Msg #474730

When someone hires me, they pay me, they set the rules for what they want done, and I agree or not.

Personally I have not seen Lease Agreements to be notarized, as a rule. Not saying that can not be done. Since the client wanted that option, I would have been the party to have agreed to this and would follow through. Lease agreements are between 2 parties, therefore, both parties are agreeing to something. I would have to notarize both parties signatures.

BUT, I do not have to charge any more than what I choose to charge. I can charge less than what the law of my state says I may charge, I can even give my services away in clear conscience.

So, what I am saying is: in CA you can charge per signature. If you don't want to be "that kind of notary" you can be the kind that makes you happy to be. But you do have the option to charge, in this instance, a travel fee, plus $10 per signature on the the document(s) presented. There is nothing to say you can't just do your entire business for free and be known as the Philanthropist Notary of CA.

Reply by gaby on 6/25/13 10:38pm
Msg #474732

ditto...both signers should've been notarized.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/13 11:42pm
Msg #474738

<<< Appeared offended as I inspect his id, and his face side by side. Stating rudely, t he made it just this morning on his computer.>>>

He was being facetious.

<<<I did'nt disclose I was a extra special signing agent from Notary2 Pro and Notary Rotary because he did'nt ask.>>>

You were being facetious.

Yes, I notarized signatures on lease agreements and the situation varies as to what the agency or the client requires. I review the paperwork. If an acknowledgment or jurat are not already a part of the total document page count, AND in the absence of instructions, I always ask the client who signature(s) I am witnessing. I never make that determination. If they don't know then I refer them to the receiving agency. All the parties of a doc do not have to be principal signers. Anyone on the doc can have their signature notarized.

I notarized a doc for a client's elderly parent who was the principal signer - some paperwork going to the IRS. The client's signatures was also required on the paperwork but didn't require notarization, only the principal's needed notarizing. Since the doc was going to the IRS and the client didn't want any "perceived delays or hassles" from the IRS, they wanted their signature witnessed too. So I notarized the client's signature as well.

Reply by Pacific Alliance Notary Service on 6/26/13 12:54am
Msg #474741

I am wondering how long you have been doing mobile notary work? And who or where did you get training, if you got any?
I have never heard of anyone being referred to as a "principle" on doc? First of all, I am not trying to be mean. If you got this sort of guidance from anyone, someone was really playing a prank on you. Seriously.
A notary never makes the decision of who signs what. If they want a document notarized, then who ever is listed on that document is the one who signs and you notarize.
Curious why you would think you need notary instructions also. These came with the notary class you supposedly took and then your exam which assuming you passed.
I would really think about getting some serious training before doing any more notary work.

Reply by janCA on 6/26/13 2:15pm
Msg #474799

Pacific Alliance Notary Service

The signer/s of a document to be notarized IS/ARE the principals of the document. Notary 101.

Reply by ToniK on 6/26/13 7:45am
Msg #474746

OMG! Have you seen her profile? n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 6/26/13 7:50am
Msg #474747

Yes, now I have. Needs some work for sure. n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 6/26/13 8:48am
Msg #474755

Re: OMG! Have you seen her profile?

YIKES! GG caught all the ones I "caught" (Msg #474728)

Reply by 101livescan on 6/26/13 9:37am
Msg #474758

Robyn, my post is only intended to assist you, not to criticize you. I don't believe you put yourself in the drivers' seat, and that you should have determined before you attended the appointment whose signatures you would be notarizing and requested they present IDs for your inspection prior to them signing the documents.

If I were you, I would table my notary duties until you have had the opportunity to become more learned in your proposed career as a notary, and to be properly "tooled", not just with laser printer which is standard in the industry, but to make better judgments on a go forward basis. I believe your clients got the idea they could manipulate the signing event, and apparently they were successful in intimidating you beyond the point of being the professional notary who is armed with a strong knowledge base and FIRMLY stands his/her ground.

Mostly, success in this business is possible when the notary is self-confident, knows the rules, and doesn't let clients "bully" and maneuver the notary.

Just maybe, Robyn, this career is not your cup of tea, just yet. Perhaps you should look into finding a strong mentor in your area, or at Notary2Pro who can help you 1:1.

Reply by ladyknc on 6/26/13 9:54am
Msg #474763

Re: your post and your profile

One thing about this forum is that you do not put it out there unless you are willing to hear the compliments as well as the criticism. Because you have alot of grammar and spelling mistakes on both the post and on your profile - a potential signing company would conclude that you are not very professional. I do not mean this to be rude but helpful. You may not even realize these mistakes, but find a friend, family member and/or mentor who can read over your profile and help you make the necessary changes. Review your notary guidebook and make sure you have learned what you need to be the professional that you need to be. If you have a desire to work in this profession then do not give up but rather take the criticisms presented in these posts and realize that these are generally seasoned notaries and probably what they are suggesting is accurate. God bless you and be strong!!

Reply by Darlin_AL on 6/27/13 4:25pm
Msg #474897

I hope you collected your fee in cash at the beginning! n/m