Posted by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 1:12am
Msg #462286

Did I do the right thing?

Recently I had a signing wherein the borrower's name was NOT what was on the docs. He was named " Jerry Brown" on the docs, but his DL mentioned his name as "Jeremiah Michael Brown". I was not comfortable notarizing the docs even though it was a match and he was apparently the same person. But my problem was this-- I was not comfortable notarizing him as Jerry Brown, and issue acknowledgment (and Jurats) with "Jerry Brown"
So I told the SS, I can’t do it. I gave them the option that I could do it as Jeremiah Brown (or even Michael Brown, if that was acceptable to them) but not as Jerry Brown.
Did I do the right thing guys?
Will appreciate your expert advice, thank you

PS: Borrower's name has been purposely changed , respecting their privacy

Reply by notarydi/CA on 3/21/13 1:21am
Msg #462289

nope. I would have done it. Jerry Brown is just a shortened version of Jeremiah Brown. If you would do Jeremiah Brown, why not Jerry Brown? If it was Bill Clinton and his i.d. was William Jefferson Clinton, wouldn't you write it Bill Clinton if that's how he wanted to take title?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 1:26am
Msg #462290

Did you do the "right" thing? Well... it's not what *I* would have done, necessarily, but it depends on the exact details.

First of all, remember that there is *NO* rule or law that says the names must match exactly. I'm still not sure why this still perpetuates, but it does. The rule is that we have to use "satisfactory evidence" --- per page 8 of the current handbook: "Identity is established if the notary public is presented with satisfactory evidence of the signer’s identity. (Civil Code section 1185(a)). “Satisfactory Evidence” means the absence of any information, evidence, or other circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to believe that the
individual is not the individual he or she claims to be..."


You stated that you it was obviously the right person... therefore, you had satisfactory evidence of the signer's identity.

The notarial certificate is YOURS. You are the one who controls the information in there, even if they try to be helpful and print names in there for you.

What would I have done? I would have used the name on the ID presented on the notarial certificate. The content of the document doesn't matter. If I am satisfied that the person in front of me is the person "described" in the document --- again, there is no requirement that names match--then I will do it, using the name on the ID presented.

I have never, not ONCE had this be an issue.

I wouldn't have called the hiring party. I would have just used the name from the ID and be done with it.

There, are, however, others who disagree with that practice and believe that the name on the certificate must match the name on the document, no matter what the ID says. This isn't a practice I agree with, but I don't know that it's wrong, either. The key, I think, is being consistent in how you handle it.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 1:37am
Msg #462291

The notary support (I have) advised its safer to notarize as the identifying document mentions, not as the loan docs mention-- in other words she said its just not right to issue certificates with name you did not see on the identifying doc( DL). I agreed with this and informed the SS and the issue was resolved with the borrower signing as Jerry, but I made him print his full name ( which was on the Identifying doc-- DL) and notarized with his DL name(full name , not nick name).

Reply by HisHughness on 3/21/13 1:44am
Msg #462292

As has been sad repeatedly in this forum --

-- at least I have said it repeatedly: Your task is to identify the signer, not match driver's licenses to documents.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 1:51am
Msg #462293

Re: As has been sad repeatedly in this forum --

I'm with Hugh. Don't go overboard trying to play the "match game" -- it's unnecessary. Your job is to identify the signer. That's it. If the document recipient is so preoccupied with names matching, then they need to prepare the documents some other way.

You have no way of 100% knowing if the name printed on a document really refers to the person in front of you. When you fill out the certificate, you can only write down the name of the person appearing, not some random name written on a document.

There's no reason to refuse the notarization. If you are satisfied that they are one and the same (as you claim you did) just write down the name from the ID and then let the document recipient sort it out.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 1:59am
Msg #462295

"When you fill out the certificate, you can only write."

That's what i did Marian. I filled out the certificates in the name mentioned in the identifying doc( DL) and NOT the nickname mentioned on the docs. But we must remember some of the docs were to be recorded in the county ( DOT etc)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 2:05am
Msg #462297

Re: "When you fill out the certificate, you can only write."

"But we must remember some of the docs were to be recorded in the county ( DOT etc)"

And?? I've had many, many DOTs recorded in various counties... in CA and in other states where I wrote the name on the ID presented and it was NOT an exact match to the name printed on the document. Not a single one has come back or have I heard a peep about it from anyone.

Reply by Mung/CA on 3/21/13 1:59am
Msg #462294

Yes. You did the right thing..................

I would've done the same thing. I would not have been "satisfied" with the ID presented. How do you know the person who appeared before you is Jerry? According to his ID he is Jeremiah NOT Jerry. For all you know Jerry could be the twin brother.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 2:00am
Msg #462296

Re: Yes. You did the right thing..................

Precisely!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 2:07am
Msg #462298

Re: Yes. You did the right thing..................

The problem here is that you said you WERE satisfied that he was the person. Given that information, there's nothing preventing you from notarizing his signature. Now, I'm getting confused, Raj. Were you, or were you not satisfied that the guy was who he claimed to be?

Reply by leeinla on 3/21/13 2:26am
Msg #462300

Re: Yes. You did the right thing..................

I had a situation were the lady had a long name on her DL. it was Mary Beth Janice Wilkes. The document said Mary B. Wilkes. We suppose to be sure that it is the right person unless satisfactory evidence proves otherwise. Could it be his twin brother, maybe? Does he match his i.d, date of birth, height, id looks and feels official, than it is probably 99% the person in front of you. Beside the name did the physical characteristics on the DL match the person in front of you. I would have notarized.

Reply by leeinla on 3/21/13 2:44am
Msg #462302

Re: Yes. You did the right thing..................

Mary Beth Janice Wilkes was a made up name. As far as I know it is purely fictional. It is not intended to offend a real person with that name.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 12:33pm
Msg #462337

Re: Yes. You did the right thing..................

I was satisfied the man who gave me his DL was indeed the man the DL named--Jeremiah Brown; having said that I was not at all sure if the man who gave me the ID was the one named in the document -- Jerry Brown. I am relieved I did not notarize him as Jerry brown. Under no circumstances am I going to give him a certficate mentioning Jerry Brown when the only evidence I have about his name is Jeremiah Michael Brown.
Finally I notarized him as Jeremiah Brown.
Thank you guys for your insight and inputs- I sincerely appreciate it.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 3/21/13 11:17am
Msg #462325

Yes, you did the right thing, in my humble opinion. Jerry is not Jeremiah. To get to Jerry you would need to add name elements that are not available in the name Jeremiah. The other names you cited would work though. I don't believe it is the notaryies duty to stick they're neck out to accommodate name variations such as you describe. My moto is if I cannot find it on the acceptable ID, I will not add it. (For first names only).

This area of notary work is sure a hotbed of contention here on NotRot. It would certainly be welcomed, by me & others, if our SOS would publish something definitive on this subject. I think that along with our SOS clarifying the rules on 'attaching' loose certificates, as well as what they have written about the single line for each notarized document (for journal entrys) that they could clarify this debate for us all.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 3/21/13 11:43am
Msg #462331

Re: Did I do the right thing? I think you did.

<I was not comfortable notarizing him as Jerry Brown, and issue acknowledgment (and Jurats) with "Jerry Brown" >

You answered your own question, in my opinion. You did what you were comfortable with.

Some would, some would not. You have to do what you are comfortable with while also following your state statutes.

It's your call, IMO.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/21/13 4:27pm
Msg #462400

Once Again, this is so over

analyzed. All you need to do is to make sure that the person who is signing is the person you have identified. Is Joe, Joseph? Get real. Let's stop IDing the ID. As been said before. Besides, we are only here to make sure that the person signing is who he/she is who he/she is who they say they are. Not that their ID is correct. Besides this will only ever come into question IF there is a fraud involved (or some other similar issue).. So get over it. Don't look for reasons NOT to complete the notarization.

In a few words, Of course, you did right. The answer. Can you defend your actions? Of course. Will you ever have to do that in this case. Next to never.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 7:18pm
Msg #462437

Re: Once Again, this is so over

Here is the California acknowledgment verbiage
State of _____________
County of ____________

On _________ before me, ________________________________________,
(name of notary public )
personally appeared ____JERRY BROWN _________________________________________
who proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s)
whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within instrument and who acknowledged
to me that he/she/they executed the same in their authorized capacity(ies),
and by his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person(s), or entity
upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the instrument.

I certify under PENALTY of PERJURY under the laws of the state of California
that the foregoing paragraph is true and correct.

WITNESS my hand and official seal.


____________________________
(Signature of Notary)
Here is the problem ( IMO). Jeremiah Brown appeared before me and NOT Jerry Brown; and I am not 100% convinced the borrower is Jerry Brown. If I proceed to issue the Acknowledgement certificate, I think it would be a perjury, since I have ASSUMED Jeremiah is Jerry. Jerry Brown and Jeremiah Brown are two different names, and could so easily be two different persons.

Reply by Barb25 on 3/22/13 8:21am
Msg #462514

Well then..

Short of DNA.. And if there is nothing he can do to make you satisfied. Pick up your stuff and leave. You are the one who is there. For me, I would ask to see something with Jerry on it. Note it in my journal and go on. But one I live in FL not CA. And two. I feel I could defend my actions if necessary in Florida at least. But I don't think it would ever be necessary.

My name is Barbara Ann. My Driver's Licence is Barbara A. I hope I never have to appear before you with a document that says Barbara Ann or it will never get notarized I would imagine. But it is your call.