Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/7/13 4:08pm
Msg #459878

ID quandary

I thihk the thing with knowingly accepting "bad" ID, is how much trouble we could be in if anything went south. I am not a "the sky is falling" and "what if?" notary, but really, if a borrower and a lender ever got into it down the line over a loan, and it came out that the notary accepted an ID that didn't even have the same name as on the docs, it seems to me our patootie might be on the line. I can't that see we would have much of a defense.

I'm aware ome notaries say it doesn't matter what the name on the docs is, they notarize from the name on the DL. Maybe that's a good defense...? Other notaries might say the circumstances surrounding the signing led them to believe they had the right person even if the name on the ID was totally different than the name on the docs (definition of totally different: when the docs introduce an entirely different/new name that what's on the ID). Other notaries might say nothing led them to believe the person appearing in front of them was not who they said they were, depsite what was on the ID. And on and on.

I truly don't know how all this might play out. But one thing I do know for sure: the LO, the Realtor, the SS, the TC, the lender, the borrower and all their attorneys will hang our butts out to dry in a nanosecond for not following state law if it will in any way help their case.

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 4:34pm
Msg #459882

The primary function of a notary is to prevent fraud, to verify the identity of the person before us we are notarizing for...plain and simple. Very fundamental. It's on the exam.

I don't know how anyone could not remember this very basic law!

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 4:54pm
Msg #459896

I'm just wondering how a title company insures clear title and the lenders (ALTA) policy for a person who does not exist. Could get pretty interesting.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/7/13 9:47pm
Msg #459968

"and it came out that the notary accepted an ID that didn't even have the same name as on the docs"

Actually, this is *WHY* when I fill out my certificates, I use the name on the ID because that is the person in front of me. I have no possible way of knowing if the person named in the document is 100% the person in front of me. Sure, names might be similar or even match... but there's no actual way of knowing.

I always say it's like this. What if you've got a father and son, for instance and they have the same first and last name, but different middle name. The father owns a house, and all of the paperwork simply lists a first and last name. Now, the son comes along and, for whatever reason, decides to refinance or take out a line credit...whatever. All of the documents say "John Doe" -- and the son, sure he's "John Doe" --- but if he's signing for his father, "JOhn Doe" --- how does anyone know that they aren't the same person?

Well, when the son shows me his ID, I don't know this, either. I just see "John Doe" on the paperwork. Going with CA law, I'm satisfied that John Doe (the son) in front of me is probably the "John Doe" named in the documents... not knowing that the "John Doe" named in the documents is really his elderly father. But absent that information, state law allows us to notarize.

So here's the thing... When I get his ID, it says "John A Doe" ... (not knowing, of course, that the guy in the docs is really "John D Doe".

It's my personal policy to record the name on the ID in my notarial certificate. There is no law that says we have to match the name on the document to the notarial certificate. I do this because I'm IDing the person in front of me... no matter what might be written on the documents. It might be that they are two different people. So, when the document recipient gets the paperwork back, they can see that the signature I notarized was for "John A Doe" --- that might very well be an immediate clue that the person who appeared to sign is not the person the document recipient intended to sign. It might allow them to verify things right then.

Now, what if I didn't do that? What if I just matched names instead? In that case, nobody might ever know that they were two different people, until years later.

I've NEVER had paperwork rejected or run in to any problems with doing this... using the name on the ID. I was asked about it once, but I simply told them that I always record the ID name, and why. They said, "Okay, that makes sense," and that was that.

A lot of companies and even clerks really get their undies in a bunch when they think that if the names don't match, the notary did something wrong. I don't think that's true at all. I think if there is a small variation, it's no big deal. If the paperwork says, "Mark James" and the notarial certificate says, "Mark Allen James" --- it's still certifying "Mark James".

I know I always say this, but I think some people forget it --- the notarial certificate does NOT impact the legality of a document. If the person signing it did not have the legal authority to sign before notarization, they don't afterward, either. All the notarial certificate does is indicate that a certain person appeared on a certain date and did a certain thing.

Reply by Carol Graff on 3/7/13 10:31pm
Msg #459974

Thank you for reminding me of this, Marian.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/7/13 11:27pm
Msg #459978

Of course, we never really "know" that the person appearing before us is the same person named in the document. That's why we have ID laws setting forth how we can come as close as possible. And, of course, we are "IDing the person in front of us." Who else? But it's not our responsibility to match names. I certainly never said it is. The law certainly doesn't say it is. If a notary wants to notarize the signature of Mark Allen James when the paperwork says only Mark James, go for it. No problem (unless the lender rejects it, of course, but that's another story).

But when the paperwork says Mark Allen James and the ID reads Mark James, or in the words of OP: "her married name is not on there (her kids are teenagers--think she's been married a long time). A foreign name was on there instead. Asked her if she had anything with name on loan for ID and she defensively said 'Nothing,' " then we are a loooong way from knowing if that person should be signing the docs. Forget needless name matching, forget recording ID name in journal, forget "knowing if the person named in the document is 100% the person in front of me," forget dropping it in the lender's lap to let them figure out if this is the person they want signing their docs. This isn't even in the ballpark.

I would love to believe that as long as I record the name on the ID in my notarial certificate, regardless of the name on the docs, I'm good to go. If docs say Mary Smith, but my notarial certificate reads Mary Schizinberger because that's the name on her ID, then I'd have the easiest job in notaryland. You say: "I'm IDing the person in front of me... no matter what might be written on the documents. It might be that they are two different people."

If correct, maybe we're just making too much of this ID stuff!

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 11:58pm
Msg #459983

Wouldn't you be horrified to read in the paper that the "real wife" is in the freezer wrapped in brown paper, and that the new wife just happens to look a lot like her and has stepped into her clothes, her makeup drawer, her linens, her identity? I have nightmares about that sometimes.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/8/13 12:07pm
Msg #460072

LOL! You've been watching too many Lifetime movies, 101 n/m