Posted by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 2:45pm
Msg #462361

Journal entry-- Notary fee

Guys, a notary gets say $ 100 for a loan signing. She prints out 400 pages, travels 30 miles one way for the trip. In the signing she notarizes 5 documents for the 2 borrowers-- 10 signatures over all. Now while she makes entries in the journal how much fee should she mention PER ENTRY in the NOTARY FEE space/ area, ( in the journal)
Would appreciate inputs-- Thanks a ton!

Reply by walthtz on 3/21/13 2:50pm
Msg #462364

I NEVER put my fees in the journal.
I cross out my fee on the confirmation.
Reason: The BR's see this. Why would I want to advertise to the BR's what I get paid?
None of their business.
My fees are listed in my notary program.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/21/13 2:51pm
Msg #462367

I put my fee in the journal - later after I'm home.

In this case I'd say $10/entry not to exceed the total fee.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 3/21/13 2:52pm
Msg #462368

In AZ it's mandatory to put the value of each notarization in the journal. The values here are $2 each.

Reply by walthtz on 3/21/13 2:58pm
Msg #462373

I guess I am luck then. In NJ, it is not required to have a journal, but I do.
But I still would not put my fees in there.
No One's business but mine what i earn.

Reply by sueharke on 3/21/13 4:34pm
Msg #462403

Actually, it is of interest to the IRS, the state taxing authority, lawyers who represent you if needed, your income tax preparer...

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/21/13 3:09pm
Msg #462382

Pretty close to what I was contemplating. Since there is 60 miles commute and also lots of papers were printed -- 400 pages, the notary fee works out to barely $ 20, and since 10 signatures were notarized, it works out to $ 2/ sign-- right Shoshana?
I am in CA-- the journal here provides for entering the notary fee. I am not sure if we have to mention it for each act/ entry-- but I believe we CA notaries ARE required by law to do so. Any CA notaries would like to throw light on this pls?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 3:13pm
Msg #462384

" but I believe we CA notaries ARE required by law to do so"


Yes... it is the law...specifically CA Gov't Code 8206.

As for how much to enter... you enter how much you charged for the notarial act, whatever that happens to be. What you charge per signature is up to you.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/21/13 8:18pm
Msg #462457

"Since there is 60 miles commute and also lots of papers were printed -- 400 pages, the notary fee works out to barely $ 20, and since 10 signatures were notarized, it works out to $ 2/ sign..."

You may be confusing apples and oranges here, 'cause notary fees aren't usually calculated that way. For general notary work, where we are likely charging based on number of signatures, yes, we do need to show that. Optionally, you can also include your travel or mobile service fee in a separate section. But that is being paid to you for something other than notarizing a signature. When it comes to loan signing work, though, when you set your fees, you're doing a whole bunch more than just notarizing signatures, so your fee for a loan signing typically isn't based on the number of signatures notarized. (The actual allowance amount and how it's calculated will vary from state to state, for any newbies reading this.)

In theory (although I don't recommend it), we could probably say that we're doing the notarizations for free and just charging for all the other services we provide, or use the method you described. However, that would be a contradiction in your record keeping if you choose to take the allowed deduction from SE taxes for the per-notarization fees. So it makes sense to document in our journals as fees charged, the $10 per signature we're allowed, up to the amount we're paid for that particular assignment. Not only is it probably a lot easier to track, it shows you complying with state law. And if you do include a separate entry for fees paid for other services provided in conjunction with the notarizations, you're protected from would-be dispute.

In your example where you're being paid $100 for 10 signatures, I'd put a total of $50 for each of the two signers. If you have more signatures than the amount paid, you can put $0 for anything that goes beyond your fee. For example, (if you're using the one-line per signature notarized method), if you're paid $100 for 12 signatures, you could put $10 ten times and $0 next to two entries. If you were paid $125 for the same work, I'd still only put $50 total for each person because that's all the law allows us to charge, if we WERE charging based on the per signature allowance (and all we can deduct for SE taxes). The remaining $25 could be listed as mobile/print services (or whatever you want to call it).

As for the costs of executing the work (like how many pages printed or miles traveled), those don't need to be calculated on a per assignment basis. You just need to document all deductible business expenses, i.e. your total mileage (or actual vehicle operating costs - but not both), total cost of paper, toner, supplies, insurance, advertising and promotion, etc., etc., then add it up for the year. When tax time comes around, you also tally up your total gross income actually received, and to way oversimplify, you subtract your total deductions from gross income to come up with your taxable income. [That part I leave up to my tax guy. ]

The fees per signature notarized (again, just up to the amount paid PER ASSIGNMENT), can only be deducted from self-employment taxes, if you choose to do that. (Do a search on that topic for more info to find out if that's a wise choice for you or not.)

I hope this sheds some light on your question and isn't just going way off into left field instead...

Reply by John Tennant on 3/21/13 10:26pm
Msg #462485

Janet, you have gotten it so right.

You have maximized the SE deduction, if you want to take it, and provided totally accurate numbers for your "tax guy". I am sure he totally knows what to do.

Reply by sueharke on 3/21/13 4:33pm
Msg #462402

Writing this reply as a CPA. I suggest putting your notarization fees and travel fees in your journal to support your income from notarizations should you wish not to pay SE tax. The IRS may not accept your word as to how much income came solely from notarizing documents.

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/21/13 2:58pm
Msg #462372

Since we are in CA, it is required to put a notary fee. I put the fee that I got for the signing and then in the additional notes section I break out the miles, pages, etc. That way I can justify my fees.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/21/13 3:15pm
Msg #462385

I'm not sure that's correct. The fee charged is for the notarial service/act, NOT for any of the additional services.

This is why I'm such a proponent of itemizing everything. You do no want to be called to the carpet on overcharging.

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/21/13 3:19pm
Msg #462389

At the escrow company that I work at, we had an issue that the borrower took the estimated closing statement and was complaining the signing charge was more than the legal charge per notarized document. Since the notary was able to supply the itemized deductions, there was not an issue after that.

Reply by John Tennant on 3/21/13 3:16pm
Msg #462387

In my journal I enter $10.00 for each notarization up to the amount I was paid for the total package. In that way I do not pay SE tax each year. I do not break out anything else in the journal as it is not required. I use Quickbooks for my bookkeeping breaking out the various types of expenses as I occur them, not relating them to an individual job. I also track my mileage, by job, in the bookkeeping system.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 3/21/13 3:35pm
Msg #462394

Personally, I put "so-and-so SS/TC/etc pays fees" in the notes field of my journal (although I don't record the total fee in the journal), and itemize each signature accordingly. I make an invoice for each signing, whether required by the SS/TC/etc or not, and itemize it further to note how many signatures, fee per each signature, and other applicable fees, such as a travel fee, fax back fee, etc, and keep it in the file with the signing confirmation, shipping receipt, and check stub when I receive it. Sometimes the package has 4 notarized signatures, some have 14. IMO it's important to distinguish the fees, especially if you're being paid a higher amount than the sum of the signature fees. If that makes sense to others. This is just how I do it.