Posted by Belinda/CA on 3/22/13 10:23pm
Msg #462626

Lender docs - Title docs question.

Is there a list somewhere of which docs are whose?
Now, most are obvious. Some go without saying.

Title companies can't even answer me straightforward. “Oh, you know... the ones with our letterhead are ours.”
Really...

Seasoned notaries I know cannot list whose are whose.

No reason I am asking. I just want clarification.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/22/13 11:19pm
Msg #462629

Never gave it any thought and this is an oversimplification, but seems that Title's are mostly property-related and Lender's are person-related. Probably couldn't name every one I've ever seen. But, while you're not happy with Title's answer, I think it covers it well enough.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 3/23/13 10:17am
Msg #462651

Many times title's docs are not printed on their letterhead. n/m

Reply by Gregory/CA on 3/22/13 11:40pm
Msg #462631

Of the loans today, the following were Title Docs.

- Mortgagors Affidavit
- Affidavit of No Liens
- Borrower's Survey Affidavit
- Authorization to Release Information
- Agreement Regarding the Disbursement of Funds
- Limited Power of Attorney
- Marital Status Affidavit
- Agreement Regarding The Disbursement of Borrower's Funds (Cash to Borrower Line 303)
- Indemnity Agreement

I hope this helps.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 3/23/13 1:32am
Msg #462638

<< Now, most are obvious. Some go without saying.>>

That’s a real good start.

Some underwriters here or former doc preps and processors may know a more exact answer. Title companies get the loan docs straight from the lender by-passing the loan originator, so they should have a clue. I'm just a lowly originator.

Lender docs, including those from the originator, which are often and sometimes necessarily duplicated by the lender, are most of the following plus some I can’t think of off the top of my head. (I'm including the obvious for those truly guessing). You can name others I am sure to have missed.

1003, GFE, TIL, Mortgage Loan Servicing Disclosure, Promissory Note, DOT, Amortization tables, CA MLDS, Patriot Act, Requests for Appraisal/ Insurance, Credit Score Disclosure, Occupancy, ECOA, Authorization for anything and everything, 4506T, SS Verification, Flood Cert, Anti-Discrimination, Anti-Anything, Affiliated Business Disclosure, ARM, (All Disclosures basically), LOE’s, RTC, Escrow Instructions and just about anything that looks like it can be related to this bunch.

Those are a few for a typical conventional. Get into FHA, VA, USDA, HECM, Trusts and you just spin out of control.

There are a number of intermediary forms between the LO, lender and title that you (thankfully) never see. I was recently asked by UW for an Attorney Opinion Letter for a Trust. Should have seen the blank stares. They charged the customer too. Okay....

Reply by Shelly_FL on 3/23/13 12:38pm
Msg #462664

Title docs are the ones that are almost never completed and

The borrowers must fill in the blanks. Often times they jump up from the table, go upstairs and dig out a file to see when they actually purchased the property or to find the name and address of their insurance company. Just an observation of mine.

Reply by Mike_D on 3/23/13 5:57pm
Msg #462700

This Thread Right Here Is Why...

Some people on this board should not be involved in the mortgage business. Utterly ridiculous that this question is asked, and some of the answers are even worse. Literally SMH.

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/23/13 7:12pm
Msg #462715

Re: This Thread Right Here Is Why...

I think it's utterly refreshing to see curiosity on this board beyond which hiring parties pay their bills. Many on here fly blind, with no formal training in the mortgage or title business. It's useful to know which entities are requesting signatures, and why.

I don't know your point in slamming the OP. Maybe you think everyone should know the answer to the question before going into business, or maybe you are one who thinks the job of a NSA is limited to checking ID and poining to the signature line.

Reply by Luckydog on 3/23/13 9:42pm
Msg #462729

Title docs are all usually together in one area and pertain to the "title company" <20 pages or less, and the lender has to do with the bank and the loan. The rarely mix them up, and you should be able to tell the difference.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 3/23/13 11:07pm
Msg #462736

Posted because getting conflicting info from two different

title companies on two different loans I am doing with a single lender and the same borrower. They apparently don't even know what is theirs. Is that suprising? Title is no help and the lender representatives is just as ignorant. They are the ones that need the education. They can't even tell me what they are requesting from me!

I am trying to verify what I already know.

Of course some of you have to make assumptions and comment negatively. That is expected and that is what keeps a lot of people from posting on this board.

Thank you to those who took my question for what it was and answered without bashing. You are appreciated.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 3/24/13 2:19am
Msg #462748

Re: Posted because getting conflicting info from two different

First, I view you as one of the sharper and most composed posters on NR. Not a basher as some have the reputation.

Next, there are so many variables on how and why two different loans are put together that anyone who feels they have a stock black and white answer is the least to know.

For example, is one loan a purchase and one a refinance? Is one loan an investment property and the other owner occupied? Is one loan banked and the other loan brokered by the same lender? That could happen when a correspondent lender/broker is involved. Was each loan sent to a different wholesaler if brokered? Is one loan a commercial loan and another a 1-4 residential?

Here’s a scenario for those that think everything is black and white. Some lenders do nothing but commercial which in CA includes 4+ residential units. The same lender ‘may say’ they do 1-4 residential loans when they are in fact farming the loan out as a white label loan (still has their name on it) to an entirely different entity who uses another money source. So ‘one lender’ can have two completely separate LO’s, processors, origination software, money sources and…title companies. In essence one would not know what the other is doing. That’s a stretch but is possible and people ‘in the know’ should be aware of such variables.

Two separate escrow companies can make a lot of difference. What are they capable of? What is their escrow software capable of? Who owns them?

In CA a broker can own an escrow company. I don’t know about Texas or KY. Can one escrow theoretically be completed ‘in-house’ and another through a large separate title/escrow company?
In CA, the north half of the state uses separate escrow and title companies. In southern CA they are combined. How might that change the mix of documents if they are not related companies?

Some institutions like credit unions and smaller lenders produce their own trust deeds and promissory notes. They will usually list this on their lender escrow instructions along with other documents they are sending ‘from the lender’ to escrow. Some may wish to look at the lender escrow instructions to see what documents the lender produces if they list them.

Often, they give the loan information to escrow who use their own software to input the data from the lender and print the DOT and sometimes the promissory note. There is no ‘one way fits all’.

One cannot assume that anything deed related comes from the title company, nor that the lender does or does not physically generate the note and security instrument (DOT)though they control the data.

What can be assumed is that the lender has full control of the note, the security instrument and the HUD-1. They must give approval for the final HUD.

CA has a separate MLDS disclosure which is often not in the signing package so how would a notary especially from out of state know it is generated or not much less know where it came from?

Whether a notary is young or old in the ‘notary’ business this can all be confusing. Heck, it will confuse 90% of most people in the ‘mortgage’ and title business because they don’t do each other’s jobs.

Sometimes too much knowledge to a notary can be a dangerous thing in this business but I am still all for sharing and learning. So here are some things to ‘compare’ if one’s mind is so inclined, starting with:

Why do the same docs on one loan require initials at the bottom and others not? Simple question. It can be standard in the chosen software or preset because a lender wants it that way.

Look at the bottom of the page of Title Company generated (printed) documents and see the different names of software used. Do some have more capabilities then others? That is, can a lender rely on title to produce the note and security instrument? (I personally do not know, but it’s a good question.)

Is one version of the same software considerably outdated but still usable? That happens with loan origination software. Different brands, different versions. Some originators will use older versions of the same brand software and then go directly to the HUD website to catch the latest disclosure version. I know that for sure, so may I assume that a title company may do the same?

I’m with you in that people should be encouraged to post (even to be corrected) but not to be bashed.

We should have a separate basher’s lounge where people can throw spit wads at each other since they get off on that.

Best!

Reply by Bear900/CA on 3/24/13 12:21pm
Msg #462772

Re: Posted because getting conflicting info from two different

I want to clarify that I think you have a legitimate open-ended question and I am in support of it.

My comment regarding those who feel they know it all and the rest don't was directed to...well, someone who said certain people here should not be in the business. Rather narrow-minded.

Reply by 101livescan on 3/24/13 9:10am
Msg #462754

Belinda, sorry you got blind sighted with a couple of bashers. If I had seen this earlier, I would have jumped in first and offered you some constructive support.

Escrow docs are usually Amendments to escrow instructions, escrow instructions, settlement statement and HUD1 too, but not always, Rate and Term can be separate and vesting too, then a few affidavits, especially if it is an out of state settlement agent, so you'll have separate E&O and Limited POA and Correction Agreements from Title/Escrow and Lender, Statement of Information confirming borrower's personal information and 10 year employment and past residence history, LOEs and brokers' disclosures at the very 13th hour.

This is an open forum, and there are no dumb questions, and we all should feel free to ask and not be worried about getting our teeth shoved down our throats. Too bad it happens at all.

THEN, the loan docs, often you get these in a separate email, but not always.

Emailed packages are like automobiles, all shapes, sizes, models, conditions, depending on title/escrow/lender and if it's a refi, purchase or sale. No two are exactly alike. Be ready for anything. And, have you noticed how many packages still come with the old versions of Acknowledgments and Jurats and not the new verbiage that CA notaries are to use now?

LOL...

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/24/13 7:43pm
Msg #462843

"Belinda, sorry you got blind sighted with a couple of bashers"

I only saw one post bashing the OP. I hope my post in reply to that poster was not taken as bashing the OP. It was meant to take the basher to task for bashing the OP. I was trying to encourage this kind of post.