Notaries training other notaries...... I heard through the
notary grapevine yesterday that a local notary "trained" a newbie & charged $500. This newbie called someone else, asking if she was supposed to sign as settlement agent on the HUD. So much for what that $500 bought her. It burns me when I heard of someone in our profession taking advantage of someone like that. I've mentored many notaries, and do regret training the competition, but I haven't set myself up to make money training anyone.
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/24/13 12:13pm Msg #462770
Wow..$500?? yeesh n/m
Reply by 101livescan on 3/24/13 12:20pm Msg #462771
Vultures everywhere!
Reply by Barb25 on 3/24/13 12:22pm Msg #462773
And you know all of this is true and accurate because it is
a known fact that grapevines are the most accurate source of information?
All is not lost in the training. She now realizes there are others to call for answers.
Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/24/13 12:45pm Msg #462774
Re: And you know all of this is true and accurate because it is
I paid my "trainer" in a dinner and couple beers and box seats for a Cardinal baseball game and we still have lunch every couple months, but he is my cousin. LOL
Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 3/24/13 1:39pm Msg #462777
Trainers Being Paid
What is wrong with being paid to be a trainer? I teach people how to professionally network, how to brand themselves and marketing. I do speaking engagements and seminars. It is one more way for me to be paid while giving a service to another. I've even considered putting together a training package for loan signing agents. Over the years I've worked on the material, but just haven't taken the steps to market it (yet).
I feel that there are too many people getting into the industry who have been "trained" and they really have not been. But that doesn't mean she didn't get her $500 worth. That particular question may not have been addressed by the trainer or the student wasn't paying close attention or . . . I could go on and on with what if's. We don't know what was covered or not covered. I have packages that are more consulting time vs specific training. Meaning you call me x amount of times and we discuss just what you have questions on vs a pre-done package of material that you may or may not need.
It sure isn't taking advantage of someone. My time and knowledge has value. You want to pick my brain, that is fine. But you will get limited amount of info. You want to pay me to pick my brain then we can talk further.
I've attended plenty of training sessions with coaches over my lifetime. Jim Rohn, John Maxwell, Robert Kiyosaki, Bob Burg, Jordan Adler, the list goes on and on. They weren't taking advantage of me. I paid to obtain some of their knowledge. I don't think this is any different.
It is all perspective and filling a nitch. If you don't want to make money training someone that is fine. But don't knock those that do. I believe we call someone in that profession a teacher. (I know there are lots of names, but I am trying to make a point).
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 2:11pm Msg #462779
Check with the Secretary of State - Does this apply?
A vendor cannot use any course that has not been updated and approved to include changes in the law effective January 1, 2013. To view the full text of Assembly Bill 2326, please refer to the Bill Information section on the California Legislative Counsel's website.
Approved notary public education vendors currently using the sample workbook must submit the declaration, a cover page, a copy of the 2013 sample workbook, and an application to the Secretary of State and receive an amended certificate of approval prior to providing courses that are to begin on or after January 1, 2013.
Vendors who choose to submit original workbooks and do not use the Secretary of State's sample workbook can view the changes made to the sample workbook as a reference. The changes made that comply with the new laws can be found on pages 25, 28, 35, and 37 of the 2013 sample workbook (pdf ~364KB). In addition, some of the examples were changed to update the dates and the reference to the notary public disciplinary guidelines. These changes can be found on pages 7, 29, 35, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, and 47.
The Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2001 have been revised. The Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2012 have been approved by the Office of Administrative Law and have been filed with the Secretary of State. The Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2012 take effect November 16, 2012.
All courses that reference the Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2001 must be amended to reflect the information in the Notary Public Disciplinary Guidelines 2012. In order to avoid the need to update this information in the future, it is recommended that the courses refer students to the Secretary of State website to review the most current disciplinary guidelines.
Reply by Barb25 on 3/24/13 2:32pm Msg #462780
- Does this apply? In VA?
I think this post is taking on a life of its own.
Reply by Belinda/CA on 3/24/13 2:35pm Msg #462781
It is called free enterprise. n/m
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/24/13 2:40pm Msg #462783
Also called "there's a sucker born every minute"..
Sorry...it's a ripoff - don't you think if training was worth $500 it would have been done by now? Especially by those who shall not be named.
I also wonder about state certification to instruct notaries. I know it's required in FL and I think that's what Stoli was pointing out - the curriculum must meet certain standards. Can't just hang your shingle and say "Okay..I'll teach you - for $500."
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 3:07pm Msg #462787
Thanks you, Linda. That's exactly what I was wondering. n/m
Reply by Barb25 on 3/24/13 3:13pm Msg #462789
Re: Also called "there's a sucker born every minute"..
Isn't this getting out of hand? First you don't know what are the circumstances or if this is even true. Second. If I were to offer someone to teach me to drive a car for example. A friend, a neighbor, just somebody who I thought could teach me... Why could I not pay them and why could they not accept the money. They are not opening a school. Or in this case, nobody knows what exactly, if anything happened. The OP dropped a bomb. No names, no particulars, and poof. Here we are... Again. The Vigilante Squad.
And if it did happen. What, the notary didn't know everything. She knew enough to question something and called someone. If again any of this really happened..
Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 3/24/13 3:19pm Msg #462790
I agree with you Barb.
Some of us jump to conclusions when we don't know the whole story. A service is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.
Reply by Karla/OR on 3/24/13 3:28pm Msg #462792
Re: Also called "there's a sucker born every minute"..
I also support your posts Barb.
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 3:36pm Msg #462796
Shoot low, Sheriff, I ride a Shetland!
Sharks, sharks, everyone out of the water!
Marion might know the answer to this. As far as I care, the service is worth whatever the client is willing to pay—and in case you didn’t notice, it was in an interrogatory, not an accusation.
Putting one’s patoot in a sling over a service fee isn’t my concern, but I’m wondering if there is a requirement to meet the training standard set by the SOS.
Hey, it was just conversational in tone, not accusing anyone of anything.
If discussing work is too much, maybe we should discuss Aunt Betty’s apple pie recipe or something else that really matters.
Reply by Notarysigner on 3/24/13 3:52pm Msg #462798
When I retired I did a lot of consulting work (8 different companies) and I also provided job upgrade training for employees who were at the low in of the totem pole.....I was responsible for 187 low end employees getting upgrades and making more money, I handed out little homemade diploma, they were so proud,......I did it for free! I guess I was stupid but I really feel good about it and I still here from a lot of them. I always tell them to "pass the knowledge on"!
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 3:53pm Msg #462799
Marion, do you know the answer to this one? n/m
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 3:54pm Msg #462800
Sorry--Marian. n/m
Reply by jba/fl on 3/24/13 4:11pm Msg #462807
What does it matter if she does or not? The issue, as I see
it, is training a notary to do signing agent stuff. Nothing was said for everyone to be getting up in arms already - yet everyone feels there must be something wrong - another area to rip off someone.
I don't know what Notary2Pro charges - perhaps it is her and her minions - it is currently, as Barb said, an unknown factor.
So Marilyn got everyone's juices rolling and now there is so much speculation with no real facts. As Arte says:
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 4:37pm Msg #462814
Now that's funny, JBA. n/m
Reply by Barb25 on 3/24/13 4:42pm Msg #462815
ROFL. Too bad it wasn't second comment posted. ROFL.... n/m
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/24/13 4:23pm Msg #462810
Re: Marion, do you know the answer to this one?
I can only answer for CA... but the "instruction" can really come from anyone. Only those who issue course completion certificates that qualify to the state mandated education need to be approved by the Secretary of State. You don't need to be approved or certified if you're teaching anything, really...including advanced loan document type stuff.
For example, I could write a manual or handbook for notaries and sell it. So long as I'm not telling them that by buying the book they're getting the state-mandated training to become a notary, it's not an issue. I know this because I actually asked about it. Also, just because the state approves a course of study, doesn't mean that the vendor is being recommended or endorsed in any way -- they're simply saying that the written course material presented to them is approved for teaching the basics.
One on one training does exist. That's how I first learned. I have never attended a large class. My first instructor was somebody who taught me one-on-one over the course a month. Her lesson plan was approved and she was a vendor... she just did things differently is all. She taught her students one-on-one and charged a nice hefty fee to it, too. You know what? That was the best way for me... she taught me, hands on, and I'd personally witnessed 20+ notarizations before completing her course.
But that's just for the required training. Anything else is a matter of private business because it's not regulated by the state.
Reply by Stoli on 3/24/13 4:36pm Msg #462813
Me, too, Marian.
My sister is an attorney and a notary, and I shadowed her for about a year.
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/24/13 6:03pm Msg #462830
Re: Me, too, Marian.
Yup, there are all kinds of notary training out there. It's just that the most common happens to be the boring sit in a class all day followed immediately by the exam. Those are the people, IMO that for the most part make the worst notaries. They have little retention of the information and are just warm bodies paying for seats in a class to make money. It serves a purpose... but I've always thought it was a disservice to allow the exam immediately after a day-long course...especially in CA when you have to wait months after taking the exam to get your commission.
Sadly, that training is also the most popular because it's convenient, fast and only takes a day to do everything. I get that... everyone has busy schedules. It's just not for me.
Nobody will ever catch me in a day-long course... nor will I teach one. I've been approached by a couple of companies/people who wanted me to teach one of these classes, and I told them no. I realize it fulfills the basic requirements, but if I'm going to help anyone... it's so that they learn to be a Notary, not how to just pass a test.
I think it's perfectly alright to pay for somebody to assist you or train you, especially one on one. However... I think it's important to make sure they know what they're doing first. Check them out.
Reply by Louisiana33 on 3/24/13 5:31pm Msg #462822
Re: Guess it depends on the state
I have paid $$ for classes to take the notary exam and also paid other notaries for different training for various things. Of course, Louisiana is much different than other states and currently we have a shortage of people passing the notary exam. Therefore, I have been very willing to train other people both to pass the notary exam and other notaries to start doing loan closings.
I have no regrets mentoring other notaries.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/24/13 6:33pm Msg #462833
No different than what most businesses do.
I think Tina's post makes lots of sense. Most businesses (or start-ups), if they're smart, expect to hire experts to teach them how to fine tune what they do - or even the basics, if they're just getting started. It's called consulting. And they pay dearly for it, especially if they are hiring someone who really knows what they're talking about. The fee is likely to be commensurate with the potential return from the advice being given - but usually with no guarantees. I don't really think a $500 fee is out of line. Frankly, out there in the consulting world, $500 is fairly cheap.
In the past, some of us have complained about would-be signing agents coming here and expecting to get trained for free. If the anecdote in the first post is true, than kudos to that person for being willing to pay to get some expertise. It's another story if someone presents themselves as having expertise they don't really possess, but if there are no legal requirements, buyer beware... [Doesn't mean I think it's right, but that's real world business.]
I agree with Marian that this type of training has nothing to do with the required notary training in CA - mostly because the OP is in Virginia! Most states don't have any training requirement. However, even if this was a CA situation, there are a couple of points that would make this perfectly acceptable, imo. A) we have no way of knowing whether or not that trainer was an approved NP instructor, and B) it appears that the training provided was for loan signing, a completely separate issue, imo. And if someone is smart enough to pay for one on one training, more power to them (if they can find someone willing to offer it; not sure I would, if that person were planning on working the same areas as me).
Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/24/13 6:58pm Msg #462838
Re: No different than what most businesses do.
I know that, in my case, the person who trained me did so because she was getting ready to retire and was wanting to pull back on the daily travel. She actually called is an "apprentice program" of sorts. She wanted to supplement her reduction of "field time" with training a few people, and she kept it strictly one-on-one. She wasn't concerned about competition.
She's now long retired and moved to another state.... but I can tell you that it was the best experience and was a great mentor.
Reply by LMN on 3/24/13 8:56pm Msg #462850
LOL, I probably received the same training from this individual since I live in the same area as the person who started the post. I am agreement with all the other responses on there is nothing wrong with training and mentoring a person looking to get started in our business. I have a problem when the person is just looking to make extra money and not give you the proper training, they are training you for failure because they know you are going to be competition. The good thing for me and my spouse is that we have the smarts to research on how to be successful in our business and our LA connection who has a wealth of knowledges and is not looking for the $$$. I normally do not respond but so had to put my two cents in;-)
Reply by MW/VA on 3/25/13 7:49am Msg #462871
I didn't say there was anything wrong in mentoring or
training other in the profession. I've done it. I happen to know that this person lists some credentials that are bogus. As you know, we're in a highly competitive market, and I'm not really concerned about what anyone else out there is doing as long as I know what I'm doing. :-) After all, the XYZ organization doesn't have any problem in taking people money for training that leaves a lot to be desired.
Reply by Tudi/CA on 3/25/13 1:19pm Msg #462918
For newbies out there, it's not necessary for you to "pay another notary $500 to help you learn the business". Reading the Notary Rotary Forum posts every day will teach you a lot, and you can post your questions on line or private message people who know what they're doing. You can also do a "search" on the forum for previous posts regarding your questions. I have found that any question I have ever had has always been previously discussed in length at some time on the forum. As someone previously mentioned, there are also classes available through Notary Rotary that will help you. Another great source of help for newbies is the National Notary Association. You can go to their web-site and become a member. It's very affordable and they have tremendous benefits, like a 7 day a week telephone hotline for answers to your notary questions. They also have many free training classes via webinars. The webinars are posted to their web-site so that you can view them at any time. They have webinars specifically geared for new notaries. You also get monthly newsletters that keep you up to date with issues and new laws affecting notaries.
Reply by John Tennant on 3/25/13 2:54pm Msg #462961
Re: Notaries training other notaries.. ADVERTISING
MAJOR ADVERTISING FOR NNA. Should be reported.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/25/13 3:20pm Msg #462966
I strongly suggest that before anyone decides to go to the National Notary Association (NNA) for training and support that they thoroughly research them here. Search for "NNA" and "XYZ" (which is how they are sometimes referred to here, since they have aggressively gone after negative posts and posters in the past). Some on this board have received incorrect info from their hotlines (and found errors in their handbooks) and many of us refuse to support them or do business with them in any way.
I agree with Tudi that there is an abundance of info available here, including very good training materials.
[All statements in this post are my personal opinion.]
Most states don't have any training requirement. However, even if this was a CA situation, there are a couple of points that would make this perfectly acceptable, imo. A) we have no way of knowing whether or not that trainer was an approved NP instructor, and B) it appears that the training provided was for loan signing, a completely separate issue, imo. And if someone is smart enough to pay for one on one training, more power to them (if they can find someone willing to offer it; not sure I would, if that person were planning on working the same areas as me).