Posted by Raj Sahu on 3/6/13 2:42pm
Msg #459544

PRELIMINARY CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP REPORT at Loan signings

Hi. I have encountered this several times-- that at loan signings ( even refinance) the borrower has to fill this form up and provide lots of TIME CONSUMING information, even when they are NOT transferring their property to anyone -- since they are merely refinancing. What should the NSA do in these circumstances when the borrower asks "why is there a preliminary change of ownership when I am not selling but just refinancing?"
Also can the NSA "help" the borrower in filling up the form as well as selecting (checking) Y or N boxes?
Will truly appreciate guidance from the experienced notaries. Many thanks in advance -- Raj

Reply by Pam/NM on 3/6/13 2:47pm
Msg #459545

Could it be a trustee or QCD situation on the re-fi's? I usually tell the borrower's that either the lender or title has required it and that I do not prepare the documents, but act as a signing agent, with my duties being confined to print, courier and witness the signing event, performing notarizations as necessary. I would not "help" the borrower by presuming to checking off boxes for them. That's a whole can of worms I'm not willing to open

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/6/13 2:54pm
Msg #459546

Below is the CA.gov site about change in ownership. I always have the signer fill out the PCOR to the best of their knowledge. Since you are not a lawyer (I don't think) be careful of UPL.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/changeinownership.htm

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/6/13 2:59pm
Msg #459548

FWIW....

I never ... and I do mean never... have the buyer/seller/signer do anything on the PCOR besides sign and date Page 2. Period. Eighteen completed notary journals later (let's see, that's 122 pages per journal), I have never .. and I do mean never .... had a bounceback from a TC or SS about this.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/6/13 3:13pm
Msg #459551

Re: FWIW....

I would love to do the same Goldgirl! It's so darn time consuming. the borrower sometimes can take up as much as 45 minutes only to fill this up! (happened a fortnight back). I would LOVE to do the same-- just make them sign the second page without filling up the form or checking the Y or N 's . So does the lender then fill it up at their end or what? Hope they won’t send me back to the borrower just to fill this up-- and since this doc is not even notarized (typically) I am sure they can do it on phone/fax/email with the borrower. In any case just reconfirming--- it’s ok to just get the borrower’s signature on the second page without filling up the whole form --right?
Thank you very much for the advice Goldgirl

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/6/13 5:36pm
Msg #459598

Just to be clear, Raj...

... I wasn't giving u any "advice." I was just telling you how I do or do not do PCORs. If you have any questions about the docs, call the hiring agency.

I will advise you very strongly, however, that if you want to continue having the borrowers attempt to fill out this form, that you do not assist them in any way. If they want to fill it out .. and there is the occasional signer who thinks they know how to do this ... then let them have at it . But do not answer any questions or muddle through it with them. Keep your distance. This form goes to the county assessor, and there are serious tax and title ramifications involved. Waaaay beyond our pay grade. You never want to hear a hiring agency tell you the borrower said: "But the notary told me to ......" when it comes to a doc that is none of your business.


The form needs to be completed by the TC, either before or after; it is never notarized, and I have never heard of a hiring agency sending a notary back to the signer to get the form completed.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/7/13 2:36am
Msg #459729

Re: FWIW....

There are certain major title companies that now refuse to complete the PCORs. They include a page that explains that they "can't" do that for liability reasons. And somewhere in the instructions is a note stating that the notary's pay will be deducted if all the forms are not completed. Seriously???!! So it's OK for US to take the liability? Because borrowers have even less of a clue, except in rare circumstances.

I'd be very interested to know if any of those are included in the packages where you just have them sign the PCOR, because it drives me crazy, too. (FWIW, I also generally just have them sign on page 2.)

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/6/13 3:15pm
Msg #459552

What does UPL mean Jessica? ( sorry for my rookie question)

Reply by Pam/NM on 3/6/13 3:25pm
Msg #459555

UPL = Unlicensed Practice of Law

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/6/13 3:30pm
Msg #459559

Thanks pam! :)

Yes, that is correct. I have never had any problems if they just sign it either.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/6/13 4:17pm
Msg #459578

Re: Thanks Pam! :)

Thank you Jessica, Pam. That's precisely what I plan to do in my next loan signing--- get the borrower to just sign the PCOR

Reply by Pam/NM on 3/6/13 4:19pm
Msg #459580

Re: Thanks Pam! :)

Raj- in my experience, it's always best to call your hiring party if there are any questions about docs.

Reply by Leona Greenlow-Turner on 3/8/13 5:15pm
Msg #460142

I tell the BO to fill it out a best they can. There are a few lines that are easy. It does need to be signed and title can call them for any missing information.

Reply by Buddy Young on 3/6/13 4:35pm
Msg #459585

That form is usually in packages where there is a grant deed. Example: Husband putting wife on title. Wife taking husband off title. Etc. So technically there is a change of ownership but really there is not, so why bother filling it out in those situations? When people take ownership of a property as single then refinance after marrage, they use the oportunity to put their spouse on title. Some do some don't.

Reply by docs1954CA on 3/6/13 4:46pm
Msg #459588

These forms should be filled out before we even get them.This is IMO is the Title companies responsibility to complete, not ours. My attorney strongly advised me against providing any assistance in helping complete these forms.There are consequences when not done correctly.

I noticed North American Title has/had a warning to Notaries that they will deduct from your fee if there aren't done.IMO,Pure laziness on their part.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/7/13 2:40am
Msg #459730

That's the one! And they refuse to do it, due to liability! n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/7/13 8:07am
Msg #459747

I have them fill out PART I and sign page two