Posted by Raj Sahu on 3/13/13 4:55pm
Msg #461024

P.O.A that I regret I didn't notarize...

The other day i was at the client's home and his elderly mother who spoke only in Spanish wanted to issue a POA to her son. I identified her-- she had a valid CA ID. The POA was in English though, and i was not sure if I should notarize the doc, since she spoke Spanish and i speak only little Spanish-- I asked her if she knew who i ma and she answered "Notario"
So far so good, and I asked her if she knew she was signing "Poder Notarial" which translated in English means Power of attorney. She replied "si si"
Somehow I didn’t do it though she was keen that I notarize and she appeared glad to sign the POA. I asked her son to get a Spanish speaking Notary, and I left. Later on I realized I should have gone ahead with the notarization taking into consideration all narrated above.. After all we are here to serve the public ( and make a living too) What do you think guys?

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/13/13 5:03pm
Msg #461027

NADA You did not follow the instruction clearly laid out in you handbook. In particular the "notario" part as it is presented. JMO

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/13/13 5:14pm
Msg #461028

WHERE in my conversation did I call myself "Notario"??????
How did I not comply with intructioms?

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/13/13 5:14pm
Msg #461029

Re:i RE-READ your post, you did it right IMO. n/m

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/13/13 5:22pm
Msg #461030

Do NOT regret, you were correct..IMO

From the CA handbook, under "Illegal Advertising":

"...a notary public may not translate into Spanish the term “Notary Public,” defined as “notario publico” or “notario,” .... A first offense for violation of this law is grounds for the suspension or
revocation of a notary public’s commission. A second offense is grounds for the permanent
revocation of a notary public’s commission. (Government Code section 8219.5)"

Reply by TamaraCA on 3/13/13 5:25pm
Msg #461033

Re: Do NOT regret, you were correct..IMO

That is what I was thinking, doesn't it's translation mean 'lawyer' or attorney?

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/13/13 5:24pm
Msg #461032

The client has the right to speak in the language she wants to. She called me Notario, not me; its not my business what they call Notary in their language as long as they know that I am a Notary, and i laways intriduce myself as a notary public. i have never called myslef a Notario or any other term

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/13/13 5:32pm
Msg #461035

Lost in Translation

Despite sharing a common linguistic derivation, these two titles convey vastly different responsibilities upon their respective officeholders.

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/13/13 5:36pm
Msg #461038

Re: Lost in Translation

Jessica where in the conversation did i call myself Notario?

Reply by MikeC/TX on 3/13/13 5:52pm
Msg #461041

Re: Lost in Translation

You didn't call your self a "notario" - she used that term. Her understanding of what you are could be very different - in her mind, you may have been a lawyer.

Even though you didn't refer to yourself as a "notario", you were better off walking away and suggesting that they should get a Spanish-speaking notary who could explain the difference. The last thing you want to be doing is defending yourself in court because your client THOUGHT you were something that you are not, and you weren't able to explain it.

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/13/13 6:02pm
Msg #461042

Re: Good job Mike I couldn't get pass the word "implied" n/m

Reply by Jessica/FL on 3/13/13 7:54pm
Msg #461065

Re: Lost in Translation

I didn't say that you did. Please don't think that I am attacking you, because that is not the case at all. I think you did the right thing by not accepting the assignment. I was just saying that "Notario" in spanish is not the same thing as a Notary Public.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/13/13 5:43pm
Msg #461039

Here's my problems with this scenario

If memory serves me, you guys in CA can't use translators. You say Mama only spoke Spanish but the doc was in English.

How do you know she was able to read the document? As a result, how do you know she UNDERSTOOD the document?

Could you communicate effectively with her? Would you have been able to communicate with her well enough to perform the notarization (ack I assume, but if a jurat, would you have been able to give an oath)?

I, personally, think you did the right thing. Last thing you need is, in a year or so, have someone knocking on your door telling you Mama said she had no idea what she was signing cuz she couldn't read it.

JMO

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/13/13 6:34pm
Msg #461047

I think this is a gray area, but sometimes the best thing you can do is follow your gut, which is what you did. The fact that she called you a "Notario" could be interpreted two different ways. One, that she did, in fact, understand what you were there for and why, or it could be a valid reason to do what you did. Someone with a better mastery of Spanish could have explained to her the difference between a "Notary Public" in the US and a "Notario Publico" in other countries and that you are not an "abogado", which may or may not have made any difference. At least with your decision, you don't have to worry about any potential consequences.

BTW, I hope you didn't charge them, unless you were sent there by a 3rd party. I try to address potential language issues before I make the trip, especially with general notary work.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 3/14/13 3:30am
Msg #461100

The language of the document doesn't matter...

The language a document is written in doesn't matter at all. What matters (for those of us in CA) is:

1) Can you communicate directly with the signer?
2) Can the signer tell you the nature of the document?

We can't make the determination that one actually comprehends the content of a document. I think that crosses a line of making legal or medical determinations that are way outside our job duties. We need to stick the the ability to communicate requirement. Using that as an excuse to get out of a notarization is the best way... WITHOUT bringing up things like, "This person doesn't understand what he/she is signing..." To me, that's dangerous ground and I won't go there.

Frankly, it's NONE of my business if they actually understand everything or not. If they can tell me, lucidly and voluntarily, what the general nature of the document happens to be and I can have a conversation with them (in any form... verbal, notes, texting, etc.) then I'm okay with notarizing their signature because I've done my job.

In this case, given your limited Spanish skills, I'd have turned it way too... only for the reason that you need to be able to communicate with her directly. Since she said you were a NOtario, that's a big red flag and needed her to understand the difference. If your Spanish wasn't good enough to determine that, then yeah... you did the right thing.

Remember, our handbooks tell us that we're allowed to notarize documents in another language, even if we can't read it. We are specifically told that the content is not our concern. That goes for documents in English, too.

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/14/13 10:17am
Msg #461122

Re: Marian,..think about this??

>>>> We can't make the determination that one actually comprehends the content of a document. I think that crosses a line of making legal or medical determinations that are way outside our job duties.<<<<<<

1. person's on an IV drip or worse has a syringe with heroin in it after just injecting themselves. VERY lucid. Janis Joplin for one.

2. People in early stages of having dementia. At the right time, very lucid. (a famous woman's college basketball coach was able to coach her team to a National Championship.

We make medical and legal determinations for sure.

>>>>> Frankly, it's NONE of my business if they actually understand everything or not. If they can tell me, lucidly and voluntarily, what the general nature of the document happens to be and I can have a conversation with them (in any form... verbal, notes, texting, etc.) then I'm okay with notarizing their signature because I've done my job.<<<<<<<

IMO it is my business to make sure I don't get called into court because of something I may have doubts about. JMO

Reply by Raj Sahu on 3/14/13 2:11pm
Msg #461158

Re: The language of the document doesn't matter...

Excellent! I give you 10/10 for the highly knowledgeable reply! I also wish to thank ever notary who took time out to contribute. We are all bound by the same rules yet we can have such different perspectives.
Anyways, finally it comes down to this: The signer has to make the choice whether they want to sign a particular document or not. A notary cannot make that choice.
I really appreciate your participation… Thank you very much guys-- your insight is invaluable