Posted by Carol Graff on 3/7/13 11:21am
Msg #459787

loan from H_____ last night. What would you have done?

I was told yesterday was last day they could sign. She said 7:00. SS (one of my best) said package had to be there by Thurs. Told SS it would not work but if they paid me extra I would drive to Escrow next day. They did not agree. I talked Borrower into 5:45. She said she would try to be home by then and would call me if not. I arrive o time 5:45. Husband keeps trying to reach her. She finally calls back at 6:20 saying she forgot but she would leave her office now. Knowing it was at least a 30 min. drive in that traffic I said I would return at 7:00. (only because this is one of my best SS did I do this). I get back and she has the LO at the table going over everything one line item at a time. I thanked LO for being there, she thanked me for coming back. After that borrower calls sister who is a Banker and they go over every line item again! Meanwhile, I finally get her license and just as I feared, her married name is not on there (her kids are teenagers--think she's been married a long time). A (foreign) name was on there instead. Asked her i she had anything with name on loan for ID and she defensively said "Nothing--I've never had any problem before, I've had lots of things notarized". I told her according to the Secy of State, this is not sat. ID. LO turned white, (she had just finished telling me she had been a notary before), said there is a AKA in there. I said yes, there is--but that is not sat. ID for me. Finally, after investing almost 2 hrs. I said that I would complete only because LO was there and i was satisfied she was the borrower on the loan. Finally finish and LO asks me if I am going to take package up to escrow tomorrow (about 25 miles away). I say no I was going to Fed Ex on Thurs. She said that was too late. I explain that was why we were meeting at 5:45. She finally said the escrow co was in her office and that she would take the docs there herself tomorrow .
I documented all of this with the SS in case of any problems. Another wonderful day in the life of a notary!

Reply by Carol Graff on 3/7/13 11:36am
Msg #459791

I forgot to mention that BO never told LO the appt. was changed to 5:45!

Reply by Notarysigner on 3/7/13 11:40am
Msg #459793

Wow Carol, I would have not given them to the LO unless the hiring party said to do so. If anything happens to those Docs, what do you think the LO gonna say.

Now from my personal experience, the loan officer is gonna "make it happen" but the problem, if any is going to be when they go to record.......that's when it will be your fault, if it doesn't.

I've always understood the chain of "possession" does not include the LO, that's why I said what I did. Hope all goes well for you.

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 11:42am
Msg #459794

I believe that it is not only a felony, but a $10K fine for not securing an ID with the proper name that matches the loan documents that individual is signing. The LO screwed up. Big time. What about underwriting, credit reporting, prelim, etc.

I would have abandoned this signing. It was wacko from the get-go. Way out of the park, too much time and smacked with issues.

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 11:54am
Msg #459795

This penalty may simply be for not securing an id at all, but how do you know she's really who she says she is? Did the photo match at least? I will not accept ID's without the correct name, especially for RE documents? Did you think about Credible Witnesses? You had at least one, you only needed one more. If the lender accepts the ID, guess that's all that's important.

But giving the docs to LO, I've been asked to do that sometimes, or hand off to a courier, or the borrower hand carries it.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 3/7/13 12:46pm
Msg #459806

" ... I said that I would complete only because LO was there and i was satisfied she was the borrower on the loan ...."

Does this mean you allow yourself to be intimidated/bullied into notarizing against the law? ID does not have exactly match name on docs. However, a completely different name does not cut it. If it were just Viktor on ID instead of Victor on docs and that person had other collaborating documents, yeah, I'd accept it. But, a completely different last name?!?!?!??! Nope. Not gonna happen. Don't care if that LO turns white or passes out. It's not that LO's commission on the line or getting the fine.

You may want to review your Handbook, Carol.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/7/13 12:57pm
Msg #459810

I'm shocked ... completely rattled, in fact ... that you accepted the ID.
You said you "would complete only because the LO was there." Where does it say in our handbook that you can disregard the notarial basics of identification if a LO is present?

I know many others will chime in and say there is no law that names on docs and names on IDs have to match (true) but add that as long as you were convinced she was who she said she was - in other words you had no reason not to believe Pocahantas was appearing before you even tho her ID read Sacajawa - you're good to go. (With that attitude, we don't even need to look at ID, we'll just take the person's word for who they say they are). Every point 101 and Yoli made in their responses should be hammered into every notary's head.

I've been in your shoes before. .... reading you post took me back to at least 3 or 4 similar nightmare signings. Huge pressure on you from every angle - lack of ID, quick doc delivery demands, LO present (throw in a Realtor, too), late borrower, rude borrower who barked at you "It's never been a problem before" or somesuch. That should have been your first cue to pack up your journal and leave. Never let them intimidate you again. Really, Carol, you have one job to do there - identify the person appearing before you as the person the lender wants signing the docs. How can you notarize the signature of someone with an entirely different name? How do you even know that was the correct person?

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 4:50pm
Msg #459891

The loan officer has some culpability here too. When I was a loan officer, the first thing we requested of the borrower was copy of photo ID and borrowers authorization to run their credit to make sure we have the right person who is making application for loan. US Patriot Act. That's what it's all about. That's how our jobs all became such critical mass after 911...part of the Department of Homeland Security verification.

Why didn't she pick it up. This is a redraw of docs, no matter how you look at it.

Reply by Carol Graff on 3/7/13 4:54pm
Msg #459895

thank you all for you very valuable advice--I learned a difficult lesson on this one. Yes I let the LO & BO intimidate me--it will never happen again. Could the LO have been a credible witness (because she has a financial stake)? But as you pointed out, she could have gotten the proper ID, she chose not to. I was wrong and I thank you for your honest opinion. Why do these LO's think that an AKA is sufficient?

Reply by 101livescan on 3/7/13 4:57pm
Msg #459898

Because the sooner that loan gets signed, the faster they get their money, and that's all they really care about, not you, not your reputation, credibility or your professional career, only their $$$.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/7/13 5:17pm
Msg #459904

That's right - they have been shown the money and now they w

want it fast - 3 days is forever to them.

Reply by Calnotary on 3/7/13 12:49pm
Msg #459807

The LO or EO can turn white or purple but I am not notarizing without the proper ID. She had ID so no CW in this case.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/7/13 1:11pm
Msg #459813

Absolutely right on CIWs, Calnotary, IMO

I once used CIWs where docs had wife's married name, but she "just hadn't changed it yet on her DL." (I was a newbie and easily pressured). Several years later, I get the same couple. During confirmation call, hubby tells me ID issue still remains. Huh? Turns out she never changed her name when she got married and never had any intention of doing so. Yet she signed docs using a (married) name that wasn't even hers! And I fell for it. I said I would not use CIWs again (lesson learned). Everybody got mad, esp their lender, which was this rich brokerage. (Mr. Borrower was some sort of gazillionaire, and they were fawning all over him.) They probably would have called another notary, but I got support when loan docs came and there were a few 1040s in there with her name on them - NOT her married name. I said if she's telling the IRS her name is one way, she's not telling a notary her name is another way. They redrew docs.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/7/13 3:46pm
Msg #459873

Oh, wow - do you not see above

Msg #459848 where the author is ranting about a message over 4 years old being false? Wants it pulled, can't believe that a message is still there after all this time.?

Carol - your message will also be here for a very long, long time. Where you admitted that you did wrong and broke the law through coercion from LO, realtor and the borrower herself. Seldom do we see suicide on the forum....

Reply by Chakwaina on 3/7/13 8:42pm
Msg #459957

I would have called SS and LO until I got an answer and informed them, or left a message that the BO needed to get a correct ID and at that time I would be willing to do the closing, but not until.

They would probably been glad they had a heads up on the problem. It actually may have been their mistake--not all women take their husband's surname--I had a male teacher in grade school that took his wife's surname when they married over the summer.

But no, I would not have completed this signing--if I am sitting in jail for having committed a felony and any possible federal fraud charges, who is gonna take care of my family and my farm? If I luck out and only loose my commission, where is that money gonna come from? How am I gonna walk down the street and hold my head up knowing that if I had just stood for doing what is right, I could save this family their home?