Posted by Marian_in_CA on 10/20/13 5:16pm
Msg #488879

C'mon kids... put your big pants on and learn how to make $$

I posted this the other day deep inside another thread... but I think it bears repeating, especially given that nausea inducing blog post from SSC (see Msg #488786 ) -- ugh. When my migraine goes away, I may find the energy to go over that puppy sentence by sentence.

For now.... here's what I wrote the other day (with some edits) regarding making a profit. This is BASIC business management people. If you're in business for yourself and you can't figure out this simple formula, you're killing your own business.


Walter H asked, "My question is what is a fair profit margin that we Notary Signing Agents Should be looking at..."

There is no such thing as "fair" profit margin. You profit margin is personal and needs to be based on your individual business needs. You have to do a lot of market research, both industry wise and for your local area. You also have to consider your individual needs to know how much money you need to be making.

While you should know and consider what your competition is charging in your profit margin... you shouldn't use it as a primary factor, IMO. The primary factor should be YOUR individual needs and figuring out if this business will help you meet them.

Simply put...and this is really simple to paint the picture with rounded numbers. It's not exact...just an illustration.

Consider how much money you need, personally, per month/year/whatever. Take that and add it TO you business expenses for the same period of time.

Let's say you have monthly business expenses of $2,000. Recall that these expenses also include business taxes, not just paper, toner, gas, insurance and such. This is EVERYTHING that it costs to open, run and maintain your business. Consider things like utilities, internet connection, mobile phone and the like.

In order to survive personally -- outside of your business venture (pay the mortgage, eat, etc.), let's say you need a personal income of $4,000 per month, gross. That means your business needs to pull in at least $6,000 per month in invoices ($2,000 in business expenses PLUS personal gross income).

If you're a loan signing agent who averages $150 per invoice, that means you need to handle about 40 loan signings per month at $150.00 each. Now, you may think...well shoot, I can charge half that ($75) and double my appointments and still make the same amount of money, right? NO. Remember that the more appointments you have, the more monthly expenses you have. There is NO SUCH THING as volume work for individual singing agents. Don't fall for that trap. Volume work assumes you can control your business costs and make a higher profit overall. At the signing agent level, there is little, if anything you can do to do that. Your average expenses per signing remain essentially the same whether you handle 40 appointments or 80.

In my example, it would mean one's average expenses per loan signing is $50. That means you'll have a profit of $100 per signing. Now, just because this is "profit" remember that this $100 is what you're actually pocketing. That $50 expense is just that... an expense. It's money that's GONE and you're not being paid for it. You're only making $100.

If you only charge an average of $75 per loan signing, you still have that $50 expense.... and you've gone form making $100 to $25. Think about that... that means you will need to be doing FOUR times the amount of work to make the same amount of money. You could do 80 signings at $75 and still make $6,000. But the thing is... your average cost per signing is still $50. If you do 80 signings at a cost of $50, your business costs go from $2,000 to $4,000... which means you've cut your personal income in HALF even though you've done twice the work. In what world does that make any sense? You need $4,000 per month to survive. By doubling your workload and slashing your price i half, you're increasing your business expenses and decimating your personal income. If you need $4,000 a month (gross...that's before personal taxes) to survive and only pull in $2,000, meanwhile you're overworked, exhausted and broke. How long will you last?

No folks, Don't fall for the "any money is good money" line -- it's not true. You're going to find yourselves deep in debt and overworked.

Do not apologize for YOUR profit margin. Your profit margin needs to cover your personal and business goals... not the desires of other companies. If they won't meet YOUR fees, then move on. There are plenty of good companies out there who will. They're harder to find and get on with...but they do exist. Leave the low paying companies to deal with the uneducated who will overwork themselves and get in to debt quickly disappearing once the tax man starts sending nasty letters. I cannot tell you how many notaries I've met who think they're stealing all my business by charging half of what I charge, gleefully rubbing it in my face... just to find that in a year (or less) they're no longer working as a notary.

BTW... yes, I fully realize that, for many, certain business expenses are tax deductible and some notaries may choose to take the self-employment exemption, etc. For the purposes of my illustration I wasn't going to get in to all of the specifics of that. Those are all individual circumstances that impact the expenses per appointment. My example of that $50 expense assumes all of those are essentially calculated and the $50 is the expense after all of that is factored in. Trust me when i tell you that $40 - $60 average cost per loan signing is actually pretty accurate when everything is factored in.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/20/13 5:36pm
Msg #488881

You understand this so well that U could be a loan signing

class instructor and explain to escrowsfirstchoice.com's instructors that $100 barely earns a notary a profit.

It's not enough to represent that notaries can earn $100 to $200 per signing, the norm will be $100, with the future toward, "if send you work from our volume, will you accept $90?"

Five Star Post, Marian. Way to go.

Reply by ME/NJ on 10/20/13 6:42pm
Msg #488886

I need to avg between 30-40/month to do this full time. Anything less I'm in trouble. I have seen people post 60+ month I doubt they are getting 100+ at that rate. My current avg is 105/signing and that is getting tough to maintain will all the lowball workers in my area.

That is why with current conditions plan B.

Reply by John Tennant on 10/20/13 10:15pm
Msg #488910

Excellent post Marian. Then factor in, on your personal income tax, 25% to 38% to the IRS, and/or your State tax. Not a pretty picture.

Reply by Christine/OK on 10/21/13 5:40am
Msg #488924

@ Marian => As others have noted, Great post! :D Wondering

if there is a 'tag' or 'place' to list these type of posts for queries that repeatedly are asked on the NR Forum.

On a tangential note: It is simply amazing at times that the Alert on the NR forum posting screen that clearly states the criteria, where to Search, what has already been queried ad nauseum, is COMPLETELY ignored by new posters . . .

Wondering if it could be made more eye-catching if Harry could type the informational Alert in RED & ALL CAPS. Maybe new posters would take just a moment to read it! If there is a place to list these types of great posts that provide a wealth of info, he could also add a Button there. The button could say 'LOOK HERE FIRST!" lol

We all make mistakes, but we also know that it would save quite a bit of time, frustration, teeth gnashing, annoyance, etc. for everyone if those simple instructions were followed by new posters. Okay, I'm an optimist and think that maybe this suggestion would ebb the tide . . .

Reply by jba/fl on 10/21/13 7:58am
Msg #488936

Re: @ Marian => As others have noted, Great post! :D Wondering

"Okay, I'm an optimist and think that maybe this suggestion would ebb the tide . . ."

The real problem is that people are not readers, don't think it applies to them and only to the other person, or that they are too important and this certainly doesn't apply to them. I'm just going to illustrate the readers, or in this case, the non-readers.

I used to have a different business with signage placed on my products. Invariably, someone would look at the big sign, simultaneously asking how much, which was placed on it at 36 point. I would respond $15.95 and they would ask why the sign said $12.95. If I was cranky or quirky, the tone would change, but I would reply that it was because I had to translate for them. Then, when I was ringing them up at $12.95, invariably someone would remark they thought it was $15.95.

People just don't pay attention. And the tide also flows.

Reply by Christine/OK on 10/21/13 8:04am
Msg #488937

lol Reminds me of Bill Engvall => 'Here's your sign'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvj_acGhbPk

Reply by jba/fl on 10/21/13 8:22am
Msg #488940

Re: lol Reminds me of Bill Engvall => 'Here's your sign'

"And he walked away" (from the elevators). So funny.

Reply by Christine/OK on 10/21/13 9:43am
Msg #488944

I know! Love that guy! :D n/m

Reply by ikando on 10/21/13 4:21pm
Msg #489000

Re: I know! Love that guy! :D

My favorite was the deer and the airplane.

Reply by SDSigner on 10/23/13 10:45am
Msg #489311

Re: I know! Love that guy! :D

CHERYL ELLIOTT is still posting my wife's website again, incorrectly. www.escrowfirstchoice.com has nothing to do with Mark Wills, or instructing notaries. Let me do your homework for you since you are too lazy. www.signhereink.com and HVR notaries have nothing to do with us. Escrow's first choice isn't even an active website. Where do you come up with stuff? I'm 100% sure you are referring www.loansigningclass.com where there is a fee for instruction. Again for the 1000th time, you can blast Escrow's first choice all you want because it's not even company.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 10/23/13 11:02am
Msg #489318

This is the connection.

Msg #489193

And from your own website:

Loansigningclass.com is taught by Mark Wills, an owner of a nationwide loan signing service who also completes 10-20 signings a week himself. Ensuring you get up to date and relevant loan signing instruction.

Mark Wills-

He co-owns a nationwide loan signing service based out of San Diego that does more than 500 signings a month. He has been a Loan signing agent for over 9 years and still conducts signings on a daily basis. There is a formula for being a successful mobile notary and he will teach it to anyone who is willing to listen.

https://www.facebook.com/loansigningclass



Mike Shields-

Mike also is full time loan signing agent. With over 10 years in the real estate business he is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to what real estate professionals look for in a quality notary.

Contact Mike @ http://about.me/mikeshieldsIII

And Escrow's First Choice is an active website...www.escrowsfirstchoice.com.