Posted by BobbiCT on 10/21/13 10:10am
Msg #488950

Companies Only Hiring NNA members ?

As far as I can find on the NNA website, a person cannot just purchase an NNA background check. You must purchase a signing agent membership package, PASS the certification exam and then receive background check for $99. Am I missing where I can purchase a stand alone "NNA background check" that is valid for one full year? (Does valid for a year mean the NNA will do repeated checks at no extra charge within the 12 month period from purchase as additional vendors require NNA checks?)

A private company can require that the ONLY VENDORS it will hire must also join the National Notary Association in order to obtain subcontactor work. We may not like it, but it reads on the public boards that this is the way the title insurance companies and signing services are going. It is a great opportunity for the NNA to increase its fee income. Sadly, other companies that do background checks are less than $99. It is a shame the companies requiring NNA membership don't at least pay for the first year.

Reply by Judy/TX on 10/21/13 10:37am
Msg #488956

Yep, last week when I called to order a background check I also had to sign up for the Certification Exam. Both cost $99. Test was 45 multiple choice questions - easy.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/21/13 11:06am
Msg #488958

Isn't all this in violation of Antitrust laws? Monopolization?
(I am not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV)

Reply by MonicaFL on 10/21/13 11:23am
Msg #488964

Well, it looks like it but I have submitted a question to an authority on Arbitration asking how one can submit a complaint against a company who is violating, in my opinion, the Antitrust Law. Will let everyone know what I find out when my question is answered.

Reply by MonicaFL on 10/21/13 11:24am
Msg #488965

Re:oops

meant to say an authority on the Antitrust Law NOT arbitration.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/21/13 11:35am
Msg #488967

I am just completely bemused at the comments in this thread, especially those pertaining to anti-trust violations. Background checks, and the possible anti-trust aspects, have been a seething topic of discussion on this forum for days. Did any of you read any of that before posting?

I'm feeling like I'm watching a designer scurrying around the Ford headquarters in Detroit, buttonholing people with "I've got a great idea! Why don't we build a new car and name it after our chairman, Edsel?"

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/21/13 4:58pm
Msg #489004

Question for you, Hugh...

I get that - in theory, at least - we're not forced to do business with the companies that require the NNA BGC (or other option that isn't yet available). We could try to keep busy with whomever is left. I'm wondering, though, if it makes any difference if those major title companies constitute more than a significant percentage of the market. I have no idea what market share is for any of those companies, but just for the sake of argument, if they represent say 75%, what's left doesn't make for much competition. I have no idea where the thresholds lie, but it seems to me that that should be a factor at some point. Or is that off base, too?

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/21/13 11:15am
Msg #488960

Hmmmm.... good question in your message, BobbiCT

(Does valid for a year mean the NNA will do repeated checks at no extra charge within the 12 month period from purchase as additional vendors require NNA checks?)

If 'other vendors' require 1 full year of validity... I'd think the NNA (as the 'preferred provider') would have to agree to re-check with every new company's request.

Reply by NC_Closer on 10/21/13 11:25am
Msg #488966

Shouldn't Harry, et.al. be the one

fighting this? Seems the NNA has done an excellent job marketing their services to the title/lender industry. Title/Lender can choose to hire whoever they want. At the very least they know the notary they hire has enough experience to answer 45 basic questions.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 1:00pm
Msg #488977

Re: Shouldn't Harry, et.al. be the one

And then the question to Harry would be "how large did you say your army was" or "how much money did you say you have to fight this issue." If we don't help Harry in any way needed, he will lose.

Reply by NC_Closer on 10/21/13 2:04pm
Msg #488983

Re: Shouldn't Harry, et.al. be the one

This topic has become laughable. If Harry and others want to keep the profit they make on BGC and other services that the NNA is quickly sucking up then they should be starting the fight for themselves. Marketing to the TC & Lenders for starter rather than having a very small fraction of the notary world signing petitions and filing complaints against those who hire us for not conducting their businesses the way a contractor sees fit.

Like I said in my earlier post, I'm sure there is actually some benefit to the TC & Lenders to know that the person they hire, at the bare minimum has been able to answer 45 basic questions relating to notary work. Lord know the SS's don't care.

Reply by EileenHI on 10/21/13 11:54am
Msg #488968

I asked that question of NNA and was told that I can go directly to their BGC company at the following address and get the BGC. http://www.backgroundsonline.com/background-check-yourself.php

However, it would appear that some of the lenders also want the certification test, so in those cases we are locked into getting the whole shebang.....

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/21/13 12:14pm
Msg #488970

This gets ever so much more interesting the longer it goes

on. (Also nuttier and nuttier)
The BGC offered by the same (?) co as NNA would have to be the most expensive to (almost) meet the criteria required by few/some/many/all? I dunno. I had one from LexisWhatsis that met all the criteria of the most expensive package...but lacked my Driving Record and so was unacceptable to a very large TC that we all know and love. If this truly IS the same co. as the NNA one and the things checked are the same, this would NOT meet that certain TCs criteria...no driving record is checked.

Reply by Frank/NC on 10/21/13 12:09pm
Msg #488969

It is clearly their call. If you want to do business with them you must be an NNA member. If not, just forget it and don't do business with them. They own the company and it's their call. What makes any of us think that after you fight their system they will do business with you anyway? It has nothing to do with anti trust laws or whatever else you could concoct.

Reply by Jack/AL on 10/21/13 12:51pm
Msg #488973

Everybody, please read the post of Frank/NC, above.

What he said is the way it is. That is clear and simple to me. I think that HisHughness has told the same, in multiple ways, with his great humor, over seversal weeks. We just don't need to continue to regurgitate the BGC woes, over and over, reapeatedly, and again and again..... It's so simple that even I understand it.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 12:57pm
Msg #488975

That means to me that newbies and inexperienced notaries are more likely to do as he or she is asked. This puts the newbie's on the "A" list. Experienced notaries will be on the "B" list if his or her skill is needed, regardless of company policy. So, just sit there and wait for all the mistakes that need to be fixed by experienced notaries and the NNA requirement simply be ignored because the work has to be done right.

In other words, give em enough rope to hang themselves and just watch the rope keep getting shorter.

Reply by Pamela/CA on 10/21/13 1:29pm
Msg #488980

Re:Hiring NNA members ?

My husband/partner and I are 'Preferred SA's" with Chase, Merrill Lynch, Wells and GoldmanSachs .... to be accepted by one of their Title/Escrow subcontractors we are being asked to provide proof of screening thru NNA.... here's a bit from email sent to us by LSI re: screen...

"Other: If submitting a report other than the NNA or LexisNexis options, the report must be dated within the last 12 months. If private information cannot be separated from this information, the sender does acknowledge that LSI will not be responsible for any additional information received beyond what is required herein. Finally, if the background check provided to us does not include the information outlined in the four (4) major screening categories noted above, LSI reserves the right to reject the background check until it includes all the required criteria."

We of course we complied with alacrity!

Here is my take on this..... we know that FAT & NNA cut an agreement per the announcement at NNA Conference. My belief is that Title wants to have 'control' over the SA's - their hiring and their fees.... So although Lender is hand selecting SA's (via LO's) to conduct their in-branch and off-site signings, Title does not want to 'split' their Notary fees with those SA's because their fees are higher. FAT is attempting to match ServiceLink horrible $50 fees by raising the bar for SA's to qualify to be "Preferred" or "White Glove" SA by insisting upon NNA screening (making money & memberships for the NNA) and in return NNA will offer an unending supply of eager Notaries willing to take low fees (and provide low service) to the ultimate payors....Lender and Borrower.

Thus far our LO's are standing tough when their request for my husband or myself is ignored by Title/Escrow - LO's have learned to text us with an alert that we're being requested but sometime it doesn't work and the LO's howl when an unrequested Notary arrives at their Branch, untrained, and unable to describe the documents or provide a happy, cheerful Closing.
Other times LO gets the name of the unrequested SA ahead of time and insists that Scheduling cancels that Notary.
However, I've walked into some BO's homes and offices over the past several months and had to lead a Notary out because Scheduling did not bother to cancel her after being instructed to do so by the Bank. It is never a pleasant experience!
After 10 years and over 13,000 signings, I have no idea where the Professional Signing Agent will end up...Its very interesting and hairy out here in the Bay Area!

Reply by LynnNC on 10/21/13 12:55pm
Msg #488974

Why fight it?

Just pay the $99, take the certification exam and get the background check.

Otherwise you are losing business -do the math.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/21/13 2:47pm
Msg #488986

Re: Why fight it?

Lynn,
It isn't just $99 from what I am reading, that is just for the BGC, there is also the cost of the membership in NNA.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 3:03pm
Msg #488989

Re: Why fight it?

I might do that next year after tax season is over. Right now I am in study mode for 2013 tax returns. Also, my spouse and 12.5 year old dog have common health issues (both diabetic with other common issues that come with diabetes). Unscheduled RE notary signings are not as important to me until my life has more opportunity to plan (provided health issues do not start giving me issues).

Doing GNW is fine with me for now.

Maybe by the time I am ready to start doing RE signing again the political atmosphere will not be in the NNA favor.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/13 1:14pm
Msg #488979

While I am no fan of this turn of events...

Somebody said something to me the other day that made me look at this both ways.

My husband enjoys making model and RC airplanes. Since he's disabled, sitting and working on models often keep him busy, even if he can't always get out to fly.

A great majority of the RC clubs in the US require its members to first be members of the AMA, the Academy of Model Aeronautics. Membership in that organization brings with it a level of insurance when flying model aircraft.

The local club he belongs to requires proof of membership before joining the local club or being bale to fly at their fields. Many legitimate RC clubs also require this.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/13 1:39pm
Msg #488981

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

oops, I meant to add... if the NNA wants required membership. They really ought to offer the BGC, E&O and business liability coverage for notaries as part of membership.... not as a separate additional charge.

But we all know that'll never happen.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 3:10pm
Msg #488990

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

The IRS, CA taxing agencies and probably other state taxing agencies require a person to be a CPA, Enrolled Agent, or lawyer to represent people concerning tax issues. The representative must be up to date on his or her own taxes or these agencies may decline to work with them.

I don't disagree with this concept.

Maybe there is an unfound middle ground for notaries nationwide to prevent what we consider "monopoly" actions by the NNA. I believe someone or some organization has the solution but does not realize that his or her ideas are able to fill a needed business niche (like working with Harry for a common goal).

Reply by ikando on 10/21/13 3:32pm
Msg #488992

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

Sue, you make a good point. I don't know how many people are aware that the CPA designation is provided by a non-governmental, private organization. They, like the NNA, had great PR to create the requirements now universally accepted. Not saying that that's good or bad, just sayin'.

The other two organizations are government backed, the Enrolled Agent by the IRS, and most lawyers by their state legal agencies. On the other hand, The American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) is a national professional organization. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_of_Certified_Public_Accountants if you want more information.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/13 3:51pm
Msg #488999

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

Yes, I think this is an attempt for the NNA to become the standard that, sadly, a lot of notaries already think they are.

I know that I am in the middle of writing a letter to FNF and will send copies of the BCG from the NNA as well as here at NotRot that I had done about the same time so they can compare them first hand. Anyone looking at the two can see that the one done here was far more accurate and covered all of the same basic things. This is a fault of the BGC vendor that the NNA uses more than the NNA themselves... but it's still the NNA's problem because they ultimately approve the job that is being done.

I'm also seriously considering walking in to the NNA corporate offices later this week and talking to them. I regularly visit an office just a few miles away from the NNA's headquarters in the San Fernando valley of Los Angeles.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 8:48pm
Msg #489030

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

You make a good point on the history of accounting and legal organizations. The difference is these organizations were formed as a result of fraud, misrepresentation, greed and other causes that have hurt many companies and citizens. Think of the 1929 depression and bad financial reporting for the sale of stock to unknowing stockholders.

The same issue is happening today with tax preparer's who are not a CPA, EA, or attorney (and have only 6 weeks of training to do tax returns) who do not want to have to register to prepare tax returns and get mandatory continuing education (CE). Hence, tax preparation people and notaries are in the same fight to get qualified people in their respective field. Watch who prepares your tax return....

Reply by Susan Fischer on 10/21/13 5:08pm
Msg #489006

Apples to oranges there. The NNA is full of misinformation

and bad advice = dangerous for the working professional at the table, with tons on the line, every time.

I'm not going to research the AMA, but dollars to donuts, they are a recognized accreditation for model flying safety. There is nothing on the planet that gives any viable credence to the NNA over any other BGC provider.

The NNA is strictly PAY to PLAY - and they're trying to corner the market to make millions off of your hard *earned* money.

Why fight it? Because it's wrong. It's financial bullying.

Reply by Edward Cooke on 10/21/13 5:54pm
Msg #489010

Re: While I am no fan of this turn of events...

I just looked at the "e-Learning" for my state from the NNA site. Per the site: This flagship NNA e-learning course uniquely presents how-to requirements for every state. Choose your state when you begin, and the course follows a path covering the laws, rules and practices specific to your state. You get the info you need and nothing you don’t.


LOL ... what a complete waste of money on the part of those wanting to be a notary and great marketing by the NNA. I'm prepping to take the state exam in December and taking a university level course to do it ... prospective pass rate for the state exam: 5%.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/21/13 7:50pm
Msg #489019

As a notary? Or...?? n/m

Reply by Edward Cooke on 10/21/13 11:14pm
Msg #489048

Re: As a notary? Or...??

Yes, as a notary

Reply by jba/fl on 10/22/13 12:01am
Msg #489053

Re: As a notary? Or...??

What state exam at what university or using what university course? Could you elaborate? I like to be able to understand what others are saying. Thanks.

Reply by Edward Cooke on 10/22/13 10:08am
Msg #489081

Re: As a notary? Or...??

The prep course is at the Univ. of Louisiana. The state notary exam is given twice a year and is 6 hours long. It consists of 3 parts: 1) multiple choice (45 minutes recommended), legal research (again 45 minutes recommended), 3) part 1: document drafting (1 hour recommended) [in the past exams the state posted in advance which documents would be required (usually either a will or an act of sale of immovable and mortgage), now however with the "toughening" of the exam it will be one of the different documents notaries are authorized to draft and will not be preannounced; part 2: critical knowledge (3.5 hours recommended) review scenarios and apply the correct notary law; example: Father has stroke and had previously had a procuration drafted. Daughter goes to bank to transact business in father's name using procuration and bank tells her that due to his condition she cannot act on her father's behalf unless she obtains an addition document. What is that document? Answer: Conditional Procuration

So, after all this, my position that the NNA is just making money by good marketing while providing "education" of no worth whatsoever .. for my state anyway ... holds.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 10/22/13 10:22am
Msg #489082

Edward, when you post here it shows you are in FL

You may want to use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page to contact the site admin and request that this be updated to show you are in Louisiana.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/22/13 6:50am
Msg #489058

I didn't realize that FL notaries had to take

an exam. I thought there was just a course requirement. Interesting.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 10/22/13 10:23am
Msg #489084

Brenda, they don't. He's in LA n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/22/13 12:57pm
Msg #489116

ROFL! ok! Thanks, Teresa. n/m

Reply by Notary/ on 10/22/13 10:31am
Msg #489088

I just read the letter from Fidelity National Financial. In that letter they mention 'GLBA compliant' as the reason they are insisting on NNA BGCs. If they are using GLBA requirements as their logic wouldn't all GLBA compliant BGCs provide the same standards, not just NNA? The GLBA rules are the same for everyone; they are not lender specific, TC or SS specific, or BGC provider specific.