Posted by NewPhoenix on 10/21/13 8:08pm
Msg #489023

Getting away from the NNA/HVR problems, I have another issue

My largest Title Company and also my largest signing service both went to an email system to notify and hire signing agents. Before this they were paying $100 - $125 plus additional fee negotiable on the phone for longer distances.

NOW I get an email that says "Signing available in Xxxxtown for $75.00 Accept or Decline?". The last one I received would have been over 23 miles each way - for $75?. And I have no idea exactly where or how far out in Xxxxtown, how many pages, what type of loan, etc. Just a "$75 is all we offer, take it or leave it". And of course if I don't see the email, or accept it(?) immediately, someone else (as or more desperate as me?) DOES.

So not only do we lose the XYZ lender business, the others are cutting our fees and have a Take it or Leave it attitude???

Comment on this?

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/13 8:16pm
Msg #489025

This has been the trend...if we want that "bulk" or "volume" work, I guess we'll have to lower your standards. Doesn't make much sense to drive long distances for $75, does it? Let someone else do it.

This is unfortunately the trend among larger companies. However, Title fees are on the increase, and the notary fees are generally paid by the borrower, so what gives? Lenders fees are also going to increase in the future.

I'm glad I have something else to do besides the loan signing piece of my business to sustain me while this industry seems to be pivoting in a downward spiral with crooksters and diminishing fees.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 10/21/13 8:39pm
Msg #489029

One of my TC clients called with an assignment. Haven't heard from this TC in months. Read instructions and procedures which have now changed. Notary fee will be reduced for any errors, including not checking the package that it had printed correctly. (Shouldn't that be QC on TC's part?) Lots of other errors for which they now will deduct, including if return package is not sealed properly. Are you kidding me? Seems the pros are paying the price for the screwups.

This particular lender package has always been about 130 pgs. This deal is 174 pages. Don't wish to burn bridges and yes, my work is down, but this TC is just dictating way too many rules.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/21/13 8:53pm
Msg #489031

With the decrease in fees due, undoubtedly to the decrease in business, they are going to get more turndowns from experienced notaries and I think as far as errors go--they ain't seen nothing yet.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 8:53pm
Msg #489032

You might look at IRS form SS8 and see if any of these controls would be considered "behavorial or financial controls." If they are, you may be an employee who is entitled to a W-2. have tax withholding, qualified for unemployment insurance....

There is a very fine line between an employee and an Independent contractor and these companies may be playing with fire by these rules.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 10/21/13 8:58pm
Msg #489033

Sue - could I refer them to your post? It's just getting

beyond an ICs control. I will let them know my role. If they aren't happy with MY scope, they can locate another notary.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/13 9:11pm
Msg #489034

Sue makes a REALLY good point...

These companies are trying to excercise WAY WAY too much control over how we do things, yet still wanting the benfits of having an independent contractor. They're not supposed to do that.

If they ant to excercise behavioral control they need ot hire you as an employee.

The IRS is actually pretty picky about this. One of the companies I did work for as a contractor was audited and got in to some pretty hefty trouble some time back. They terminated all of their IC contracts and hired on a handful of their best people as employees. I still do that exact same work for them as I did before, I just pass along some of the record keeping details to them for reimbursement rather than keeping for my own business records.

In reality, I'm actually earning a little MORE money from them as an employee than I did before. I'm reimbursed for expenses and mileage as well as paid for my time. Plus, I'm covered under their worker's comp insurance should anything happen to me on-site when I'm working for them.


See this page for more info:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-%28Self-Employed%29-or-Employee

Of major note is the page on behavioral control:

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Behavioral-Control

"A worker is an employee when the business has the right to direct and control the worker. The business does not have to actually direct or control the way the work is done – as long as the employer has the right to direct and control the work."

Most of these companies treat notaries as employees yet pay them as independent contractors. It's NOT right. The problem, though, is the a lot of notaries have no clue how to run their business as a contractor so they just put up with it.

Reply by John Tennant on 10/21/13 9:38pm
Msg #489036

Re: Sue makes a REALLY good point. Work for Skysail?

Those who work with Skysail should pay attention. If they are providing you with a W-2 instead of a 1099 they should be deducting your taxes and paying THEIR share of Medicare, etc.

Remember, IRS holds YOU responsible for your tax obligations, no matter what the hiring entity does.

JMHO.

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 10:22pm
Msg #489040

Re: Sue makes a REALLY good point. Work for Skysail?

John, I think the two of us make a great team as I don't always include all key elements in my post. I really like when you complete the details to make the subject clearer.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/22/13 8:36am
Msg #489069

Why would you think they're giving W-2's???? The only

difference is that you'll get the 1099 from them instead of the hiring party.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/22/13 9:57am
Msg #489077

If they send you one, that is! n/m

Reply by sueharke on 10/21/13 10:17pm
Msg #489038

Re: Sue - could I refer them to your post? It's just getting

Yes. I believe in posting only comments that might be repeated someplace else (or don't say it).

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/21/13 9:26pm
Msg #489035

Don't worry, it won't last

Even the lowball notaries will start saying "screw this" when they blindly accept these email offers of $75 - take it or leave it - and keep getting packages of 200+ pages, full package fax backs, 50+ miles one way, handholding, babysitting.....and after all of that, they have to wait 90 days to get their measely $75...IF they get paid at all.

At some point, the hiring entities will have to pay a professional notary a professional fee, because they too will say "screw this" - we're tired of getting packages back incomplete and full of errors.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/21/13 11:56pm
Msg #489051

Truth here....just how much will apply is open. Good , Lisa. n/m

Reply by Gary Boehm on 10/21/13 10:11pm
Msg #489037

Getting away from the NNA/HVR problems, I have another issue

Thanks for everyone's' replies! I may remind some of them that controls over my activities might constitute employment and ask them to withhold taxes, social security and medicare for me. Hmm, wonder what they will say?

As to waiting until they see all the errors they get from hiring $75 'signing agents' and wanting us professionals back - will we still be here? I am honestly thinking of going into small airplane maintenance and repair where my skills and extreme attention to detail is appreciated!

Reply by Jack/AL on 10/21/13 10:20pm
Msg #489039

Gary, the answer to answer your question,

"wonder what they will say?" is probably that they'll say that they'll just find another Notary Public (one of those $75 ones that does anything for that price from any company). Perhaps it is time to kick the tires and light the fires. Keep 'em flying. Best of luck and success to you.

Reply by snowflake/PA on 10/22/13 7:11am
Msg #489060

This is actually from a 5 star TC. I will enlighten them

that their new "controls" both behavioral and financial make me employee. Thanks to everyone who posted.

Reply by SDSigner on 10/22/13 11:25pm
Msg #489264

That's a tough one, I took a $75 signing from the "FASS" system. First American, it's a good client from Chase so I accepted, jumped through their hoops, three months later I'm still not paid. Sometimes it's better to stand your ground and say no, enough is enough.