Posted by ToniK on 10/18/13 2:31pm
Msg #488649

Need advice on backdating

Yes before everyone gets all crazy, I know backdating is illegal and I refuse to backdate.

Situation:

Appt for 6pm on Oct 16. I get call around 5pm that docs are uploaded to website. I get emails at 5:12 to do completion report. Docs were scanned improperly. My printer wouldnt accept the 10x14 docs. I messed around with settings and got it to print on 8x14. Get to BO home late, around 640-50pm. Noticed that some docs the font was so large that it didnt fit all on legal paper. The right side was cut off. I immediately called company and informed them of the situation. I told them I can reprint the DOT and HUD as those were really messed up. I had BO sign the rest of the docs. The 4506T and 4506 was messed up as well. The pages on the DOT and notarized pages were fine. SS says send package back as they couldnt get in touch with Title. Title calls me later that night when I was already home. I informed them of the situation.

Today they call wanting me to resign the complete package. I request a trip fee to go back out as I did inform them, tried to fix it. Then here comes Title saying we sent docs at 1130am and you should have called well before the appt with any issues. I inform Title I did not get docs till 5pm and I was late to the appt. Title swears up and down they sent docs to SS early enough. Ok I'll give you that, i dont know BUT I know SS didnt send it till 5pm. I even got the call record of when they called me to inform me docs were available.

SS is saying they uploaded docs before 5pm and the system generates an email to inform of that. Well I never got that email and the one email I did get came in at 5:12pm. Well anyways, I agreed to go back out for a fee which we agreed to to take care of this today. BUT the owner of the SS calls and yells at me to backdate the docs for Oct 16. I refuse to do that.

I dont appreciate being yelled at and being disrespected. I was going to go out and get these docs resigned but at this point and after our phone conversation where I just hung up on the guy, Im going to request they find someone else. And to think that they would ask me to backdate and I formerly worked for the FBI.

Oh wait I didnt ask...so in this situation what would you do?

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/18/13 3:02pm
Msg #488650

Exactly what you did.

Seems when an SS gets its back up, they are running scared that THEY will lose a lot of business so they try to lean heavily on the bottom of the food chain. If they have to find another notary, that notary will not be backdating, so I can't see the SS with a 'win' here. So, if logic reigns, maybe they'll see it your way. Then again, probably not.

Reply by Calnotary on 10/18/13 3:06pm
Msg #488651

Re: Exactly what you did.

I will tell them I will go back but NOTHING will be backdated especially my certificates. The SS owner don't care if you go to jail. They just want to have their client happy. And I will just don't go at all. Once she/he yelled at you.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 10/18/13 3:21pm
Msg #488653

Good for you Tonik! That's exactly why I don't accept those

"just print & go" jobs. When they're in a hurry, last minute, etc., they ALWAYS TTNUTB! I tell them I need to go thru the pkg & make sure everything printed 'ok'. In your case, someone dropped the ball & sent/ uploaded them late. If that happens w/ me I STILL go thru the pkg - if it's going to make me late to another appt, the late pkg gets pushed to the back, unless it makes me double-back & those BOs are ok w/ it.

I have some TCs that pay me quite well to be on time AND keep their BOs happy.

The funny thing is I had a dream about backdating last night!

A sign I once saw said: "Your failure to plan does not constitute an emergency on my part". Also, remember: "Haste makes waste!" Good luck to you in the future!

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 3:58pm
Msg #488659

No!!! not a dream about backdating...lol n/m

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 3:51pm
Msg #488657

My decision was

to let them find another notary to handle it.

I was perfectly fine with going to resign the docs with todays date BUT when the guy started going off on the phone, I asked him to calm down. He did but then he just raised it to a level of 10. I was sitting next to my ex-husband and he heard the whole conversation. I just hung up on the guy.

After the call my ex husband was like what was the guys deal? So I explained how it was illegal. I would never jeopardize my integrity with doing an illegal act. Not in fear of losing my notary commission or displeasing the client but I hold a top secret clearance and work with the federal govt on various contracts. I do something stupid like this and I'll never be able to work a good paying job in my career field, nor be able to apply for the secret service, DEA or FBI. So I dont care about some measly low level SS business owner and his business. My livelihood is at stake. So I sent an email to the SOS reporting the SS company AND Title company. Then emailed the SS and Title telling them to look for another notary and to remove me from their database.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/18/13 4:20pm
Msg #488662

Woulda done the same, even w/ no security clearance! n/m

Reply by Christine/OK on 10/19/13 4:05am
Msg #488727

Yes, precisely the POA I would have implemented, Toni! :D n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/18/13 3:39pm
Msg #488655

When I get to this situation I remain quiet....fifteen seconds later the caller says, "are you there?" and my reply is "Were you taking to me?"....CLICK

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 5:38pm
Msg #488665

I don't know if the 'Subject' line was the correct Topic for this (seems like darker forces at work here) . . .

<<Here comes Title saying we sent docs at 1130am and you should have called well before the appt with any issues. I inform Title I did not get docs till 5pm . . . Title swears up and down they sent docs to SS early enough.>>

This is precisely why this 3rd party mess is just that - a Mess - and more headache for everyone down the line. I honestly don't think one could find a better example of why TC >>> SC>>>> NSA makes no sense!

I have a SS client that calls with eDoc status (after some prompting from me usually), then calls again to say docs uploaded (I'm like can't you just text me or send email); anyway, I guess I could just let it go to VM since I <know> what it's for. If this SS you're dealing with works the same way, AND they called you "around 5pm that docs are uploaded," WHY doesn't TC get that this disorganization was a direct result of SS failure to communicate??

As for SS owner yelling (like a 6 yr old), Disconnecting the call is exactly what to do (Go disrespect someone else). I sincerely hope this SS is not a 4+ co. I also think you should share the name (since you're no longer in their db).

I also know the quote (Hrdwkr mentioned) about someone else's "failure to plan." There is another one that applies equally here as well: "You can get yourself all slicked up like fancy race horses; but you may really be nothing more than a mule in horse harness."

Even if others (with a mistaken view of themselves) attempt to discredit or demean you, if you maintain your self-respect/dignity and ethical conduct, <you're> the person of Quality. Hopefully the TC will see that.

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 5:54pm
Msg #488667

I chose the title because it would grab folks attention and hopefully get them to read lol

But the company was Sunshine Signing. For 2 hours they refused to pay me for a second trip. Blaming me when I had informed them the night of the signing. I mean I will take partial blame BUT I did try to correct the situation however I will not take full blame as I made SS and Title aware the night of. Also SS was trying to say they uploaded docs earlier in the day. Umm no you didnt. Just admit you flubbed the docs.

All I asked was $75 to reprint the small package and resign. They claim they were going to lose a big client and the account. So in order to save YOUR client, you refuse to pay out $75 to keep hundreds/thousands of dollars in your pocket?

Im seeing more and more these companies just disrespecting their vendors. Im pretty sure a lot of notaries accept this treatment. But I refuse to be talked down, demeaned and disrespected AND then expected to perform a service? Folks lost their minds. I dont allow anyone in my family or friend circle to treat me that way. No way Im going to allow some stranger to talk to me that way. And then accuse me of holding docs hostage...Ill let someone else deal with that headache.

This is a great time to see the true nature of a person. Maya Angelou once said “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 6:11pm
Msg #488670

More Odd-size pages (also see Msg #482040)

Right. Tension are high because <they> waited until the last minute and it is not possible to adequately prepare, peruse, review and print less than 2 hours before the signing! That is where the "disrespect" starts - in lying about the time the docs were ready and not caring about our schedules and difficulties working within such a short time frame.

Now, I know there are those here (with a ruler pointed straight in your direction) saying, "should have reviewed docs before/while printing." We know who they are and we've heard it before.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/13 7:40pm
Msg #488675

I'm not sure about the "ruler pointed straight in your

direction", but I learned a long time ago not to print & run under any circumstances. I had situations back a few years when things were crazy busy, and I had to pick up docs at FedEx Office & race to the borrowers. I found out they had printed all on letter size & half the docs were cut off. I had to go out the next day with correct docs.
I do hope it wasn't a situation of losing a rate lock or anything.
While I agree that it's wrong for them to ask you to backdate & get nasty with you.
This situation seems like a shared responsibility for the mistake, IMO.
No, they lied about what time they sent you the docs & you were rushed. You spent extra time trying to get the docs printed right. I'm not sure why you didn't call about the problem with the docs.
We can all play Monday morning Quarterback on these. Sometimes we just get involved with things we wish we hadn't. Have a great weekend! ;-)

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 7:46pm
Msg #488679

Re: I'm not sure about the "ruler pointed straight in your

see her stmt "I immediately called company and informed them of the situation."

What did they say, Toni when you told them at the signing what had happened?

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/13 7:51pm
Msg #488685

I read that to mean she noticed when she was at the bo's

home. Sorry if I misread that.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 7:54pm
Msg #488687

Re: I read that to mean she noticed when she was at the bo's

Yes, at the signing. I believe she discovered the "surprise" then and called them

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 7:56pm
Msg #488689

Re: I'm not sure about the "ruler pointed straight in your

The lady on the phone said to return to title and we will see what they say. She was unable to get title on the phone. But Title called me later that night after I was already home. I told them of the situation and said I would reprint the docs but the signature pages were fine. They said to drop the docs that day.

I spoke again with the Title lady and she said she scanned them in properly and nothing was wrong with the docs when she sent to SS. So basically she was blaming SS, SS was blaming me. I admitted to the issues or printing BUT I was NOT going to take full blame for their screw up.

Reply by SSC_Rep on 10/18/13 7:59pm
Msg #488691

2 sides to every story

I think it is only far to share the other side of the story. Sunshine works very hard to provide fair, honest work to our vendors and clients alike. I think it is only just for us to defend ourselves when we are being slandered with false information.

In this particular signing, the documents WERE uploaded at 11:24 AM. This is something that is automatically logged by our software and verifies the time to the second when transactions happen through our system. Anyone who has done work with us before knows the system automatically sends an email when docs are uploaded, just like a confirmation of the assignment; we also always call as well so you know for sure you have the documents. So, there are 2 notifications that you have received your docs.
This was not a last minute signing. It was scheduled several days in advance. It was supposed to sign at 6 PM. However, the notary didn’t even download docs until 5:16 PM, again this is time stamped by the software. Notary didn’t arrive until almost 7PM. We were not notified about any printing problems until after the fact. Here is an email we received regarding this:

"From: ToniK**** [mailto:tonik****[e-mail address]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 7:13 PM
To: SSC
Subject: Re: Confirmation: Appointment Confirmation for Ph*** Signing, #7***, FV13-***
The documents did not print out well. I have my setting selected as print as per size. When at BO home I noticed that the document size is off. All docs are on legal paper but the size of the font is huge and partially not on paper. I'm at the BO home and noticed this.

I will use their copies which are on letter. Just an FYI. nothing I can do about it now. If docs need to be resigned please advise."

The next morning we checked the status of everything. We checked the docs and even printed them and they printed fine. It was probably a problem on the printer settings with the notary. Now, I know we are not perfect either. That is why we went through and verified exactly what happened. If we did make an error on our part we would be accountable.

We were definitely upset when we verified that we had everything to the notary 7 hours prior to the signing, and not only was she late and didn’t check the documents that she misprinted, she couldn’t hold herself accountable for her mistake, she just wanted to charge us more money. We thought that was very unprofessional.

As far as what we will do to keep a client, well the file couldn’t fund due to this error and has to reclose. Since we are responsible for the notary, as we hired her, we now have to comp the signing and pay a new notary.

There are always 2 sides to every story. We know we are not perfect and by all means we are all human here too. However, we do our best to provide a great service in this very fragile and unforgiving field.

This response is not to argue or go back and forth with anyone. It is simply to share the other side of the story which is supported by software tracking.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/18/13 8:10pm
Msg #488695

Yes, two sides, but not allowing for when you send and

her server places them on her email account, SSR. There has been this problem many times, with each and every server known to mankind.

The software tracking goes both ways - you have your time stamp and she has hers. Things get lost in the ether sometimes.

This is a most unfortunate situation all the way around.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/18/13 8:11pm
Msg #488696

Also, you did not, SSR, address the backdating issue. n/m

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 8:26pm
Msg #488699

They wont admit that. n/m

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 8:33pm
Msg #488701

Oh and to add

I was going back out to have them resign UNTIL the owner came out of his neck disrespectful, demeaning and unprofessional. AND thats when I said go find someone else. Plus I have call logs from the time of 1:15pm, 2:30pm, 2:39pm and 2:42pm.

As you can see in the email YOU so kindly provided (missing a few things in it) that I was willing to fix the issues. But when requesting to backdate in addition to being disrespected, Im not bending over backwards. Also I have reported it to the VA SOS, the request to backdate. Ill be watching for the recorded docs to see what date shows up on it.

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 8:25pm
Msg #488698

I cant believe the sheninangans this CO goes through

Why did you cut off the rest of my email. Its missing some sentences.

"The documents did not print out well. I have my setting selected as print as per size. When at BO home I noticed that the document size is off. All docs are on legal paper but the size of the font is huge and partially not on paper. I'm at the BO home and noticed this.

I will use their copies which are on letter. Just an FYI. nothing I can do about it now. If docs need to be resigned please advise. "

In addition, my call log (which I have screenshots of) I was on the phone with YOUR rep for 20 mins 46 secs 7:14pm. Title called at 8:19pm. You did not upload docs at 1130a and I didnt get a notification till 5:12p from your system and didnt get a call from your company till about 4:50pm informing me docs were uploaded for a 6pm signing.


Glad I requested to be taken out of your database.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 8:42pm
Msg #488703

Please also address TIME you called to say (11:30am) docs

were uploaded. From experience, I know that SSC always calls AS SOON AS docs are ready (typically only a couple of hours before the appt). This will tell everything.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/18/13 8:43pm
Msg #488705

Why reply post to SS appears where it did . . . a mystery? n/m

Reply by ED Fadden on 10/18/13 8:38pm
Msg #488702

So let me get this straight you are.... Not in fear of losing my notary commission or displeasing the client but I hold a top secret clearance and work with the federal govt on various contracts. I do something stupid like this and I'll never be able to work a good paying job in my career field, nor be able to apply for the secret service, DEA or FBI. So I dont care about some measly low level SS business owner and his business. My livelihood is at stake. So I sent an email to the SOS reporting the SS company AND Title company. Then emailed the SS and Title telling them to look for another notary and to remove me from their database................. Never before in my entire life have I heard the Secret service, DEA, or FBI in any notary forum it sounds like you are writing a great fiction novel I love the fictional part about a FBI agent being asked to back date documents and the FBI agent not knowing how to do a simple print job or being able to check the print outs so the FBI agent who wants to work for the secret service or DEA is unable to check documents as they come out of the printer so his mission is compromised by this new thing called printing a PDF. As the faithful ex husband stands by divorced due to the clandestine nature of mobile closings. Bottom line continue writing this great fictional novel and keep mentioning the secret service and DEA. And then get out of the closing business or learn your job, every closing is its own animal and needs to be treated so docs come late all the time, and you as the hired agent must take the time to thumb thru the documents briefly to be sure thy are printed correct. The fact that your shortcoming and not doing the very BASIC part of the Mobile Signing Agents job (to check the docs are right before you go) even if you are going to be late call everyone and tell them. I just got the docs I am going to be there as soon as I can then you take the time you need, if that does not work tell them to find another closer. The fact that you are reporting this and that blah blah blah blah,, big waste of time if you had spent that much time doing the job you were hired to do you would have the money for the work you did. I also find it hard to believe that any signing company would ever ever ask anyone to back date, most have govt. client's and 1 million or more in E&O and would not lose any of that over 1 ex-FBI agent that does not know how to print and do the the job they were hired for a blow a closing. Move on to your Secret service job, Former FBI Huh no wonder we have no answers on Bengahzi go back to your Govt. job you can make it there.

Reply by ToniK on 10/18/13 8:43pm
Msg #488704

what an idiot

No where did I say I was an FBI agent or former FBI Agent. But thanks for giving me that title. Although impersonating one is illegal.

If you want to talk politics and bash the govt, take it to JP. TROLL!!!

Reply by MW/VA on 10/18/13 8:54pm
Msg #488709

Enough already--this is getting out of hand. Toni told her

side of the story, and the ss has another view of the situation. That's typical. What's done is done--time to let it go.

Reply by ED Fadden on 10/18/13 8:55pm
Msg #488710

Re: what an idiot

Well we know one thing you are unable to print a PDF or check your email or understand what a signing agent is and what its job requires, so who is the idiot again. I think you should resign your notary commission due the the fact of shear incompetence and you are making up false stories to cover up your lack of doing your job. I had a few of you in my command when I was in the Army weeded them out quickly for more training or discharge no room for people that are unable to do the job they are paid to do, cost is to high. I think Tonik wants to be a govt. employee but even they wont have her..that pretty sad if you think about it Toni.

Reply by ED Fadden on 10/18/13 8:57pm
Msg #488711

Re: what an idiot

Poor Toni muy regresso

Reply by sueharke on 10/19/13 12:57am
Msg #488721

Re: what an idiot

I also believe the prior poster needs to learn how to read what was actually posted. What you wrote and understood was not what ToniK said.

Reply by HisHughness on 10/19/13 1:57am
Msg #488722

Re: what an idiot

***I also believe the prior poster needs to learn how to read ...***

Yeah, and that would be the starting point for learning how to write a coherent sentence also.

Reply by ED Fadden on 10/19/13 8:37am
Msg #488732

Re: what an idiot

Ho My TONI ,,,,,,but I hold a top secret clearance and work with the federal govt on various contracts. I do something stupid like this and I'll never be able to work a good paying job in my career field, nor be able to apply for the secret service, DEA or FBI. So I dont care about some measly low level SS business owner and his business. My livelihood is at stake. So I sent an email to the SOS reporting the SS company AND Title company. Then emailed the SS and Title telling them to look for another notary and to remove me from their database.

I think somebody should report Toni for failing her basic Notary duties checking documents for accuracy. Dont, care, measly, lively hood at stake ho my learn how to do your job an poof no reason for don't care, measly and when reporting everybody to the DEA and FBI and Secret Service did you also report your self for failing in the basic duty of a Notary Public, well did you? you seem to think everything is everybody's fault but yours. Well how bout asking your ex husband what that his fault to????

Reply by HisHughness on 10/19/13 8:43am
Msg #488733

Re: what an idiot

Upon reflection, I have to say that I think Toni was wrong: It was a disservice to call the above poster an idiot.

That's an insult to idiots.

Reply by ToniK on 10/19/13 5:39pm
Msg #488779

I agree Hugh

I cant think of any words that would classify this bozo the clown. E-thugging on the notary board. Clearly he failed English in school in various grades. lol

Looks like he is having a Turret's episode.

Ed Fadden, Oh and duties of a notary public is NOT printing. Thats a courtesy service. Unless I missed that information in the notary handbook.

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/19/13 11:16am
Msg #488755

First post Ed?

Well posters here will know everything about you in the next day or two. Example...no water in your swimming pool and you obvious loss of shoreline (hope it ain't a sink hole).

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/19/13 11:18am
Msg #488756

meant to say "your" obvious n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/19/13 2:17pm
Msg #488773

Too many horror stories of notaries printing and running.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/19/13 7:12pm
Msg #488786

Interesting blog @ SSC

http://www.sunshinesigningconnection.com/Default.aspx?tabid=5489

Just one tasty tidbit:

Mobile Notary to Mobile Notary – Small Jobs add up to Big Bucks

In today’s age, mobile notaries are asked to perform all sorts of different mobile notary signings. As more laws come into play, and identity theft is at an all time high, more companies are requiring more types of documents to be notarized. If you ask most mobile notaries what type of signings they perform, the majority are going to say Real Estate transactions. Now if you ask the successful mobile notaries what types they sign, their answer is “all of them”. One thing I have noticed as a scheduler for a signing service is a lot of notaries say they will ONLY do Real Estate closings. That’s fine if you have established yourself with some companies as their preferred notary and they keep you busy enough. For the rest of the notaries, there are other options besides real estate closings to supplement your income.

Some of these jobs you may get called on, you may not be familiar with and that's okay. Let me tell you, these are the EASIEST ones to do, and my personal favorite. Now most of these types of signings don’t pay as much as a refinance or purchase closing, but for the time spent and the job at hand, it equals about the same or more. I know some of you are thinking, “I’ve been offered these before and they only pay $45, that’s not worth my time”. Well actually lets break this down. I will use an average for an example, some take more time and some take less time. We will compare a refinance at $100 and a smaller assignment at $45.

So for example let’s say the signing is at the same location. The average drive is 15 minutes, with some being more and some less. Costs for printing (paper and toner) is about $.07 per page. Let’s say it cost a total of $3 in gas.

So for the REFI, average page count is 120 pages plus a borrower copy. Total cost of printing is $16.80. Plus the $3.00 in gas. Total Cost to perform job, rounded up is $20.00. Leaving you a total of $80. Then the average time to complete a refinance is about an hour, with some going faster and others taking longer. Total time including drive would be 1 ½ hours for $80. Not bad money for the time.

Now let’s look at the smaller assignments. Average page count would be around 20 pages without a borrower copy. Printing cost is $1.40. We will add the $3.00 in fuel, totaling $5.00 if we round up. That leaves you $40. The average time to complete this type of signing is very quick and would be around 15 minutes. Some will take more time and others you will finish way before that. Total time to complete job including drive is around 45 minutes for $40.

So by comparing the 2 by average jobs, they actually equal out to the same amount of money made for your time spent working.

Most people don’t look at it this way and miss out on a lot of work. If you want to be a successful notary that is able to do this work full time don’t pass up on these opportunities. Not only is it extra cash in your pocket, at the end of the day it will earn you more business as well. Signing services take note of the people that complete these type of signings for them as they are harder to schedule. The schedulers take note of your name because they know they can count on your services regardless of what type of signing it is. So when the refi’s and purchases come in, you’ll end up being their first call.


Not worth your time? Hopefully this has helped change your view. Next time you get a call for a $45 job, remember that’s $45 added to your income that you didn’t have before. So before you pass up on these smaller jobs, remember, the small jobs add up to big bucks.

By Cory Byrd

Reply by jba/fl on 10/20/13 9:16am
Msg #488807

What, what, what?

Where are my expenses, my gas? I live where nothing is 15 minutes away....traffic alone prohibits that. Plus you want me to go during peak driving times - now the roads are clogged and I don't even move forward.

Tell me, SSC: why does everything need to take place at 5pm or 6pm? Even 4pm is bad - I get done with whatever it is and I'm in rush hour traffic - sitting, sitting, sitting, exhausing my gasoline supply all the while. Where do you get this 15 minutes anyway? What dream world do you occupy? And why do you tell me it is "only" 15 mins. away -

Where are my taxes calculated? Do you realize as self-employed our taxes are different structure than yours, sitting in an office with an employer?

Try a different tactic to convince me to take lower fees.

Reply by ED Fadden on 10/20/13 12:27pm
Msg #488840

Re: What, what, what?

James Dawson call himself an artist more like a drunk with a tooth brush.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/20/13 1:08pm
Msg #488848

Geez, Ed

I would ask you how old you are but I know you can't count that high.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/21/13 7:07am
Msg #488929

Ummm..Ed? That remark was totally uncalled for..

Maybe you should go back and read your own recent posts before you call someone ELSE a drunk.