Posted by Marian_in_CA on 10/29/13 9:45am
Msg #490198

Take a deep breath and don't read this on a full stomach...

Well, I'm only kind of joking. We all knew there was a connection... remember Sam Zaki, who gave that keynote speech at the NNA conference this summer and all of the ensuing nonsense? For months, people wondering... knowing there's a connection.

Well... here it is. As it turns out, she's chairing this "group":

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20131029005730/en/Industry-Leaders-Announce-Mortgage-Signing-Standards-Improve

I'll let you all read it and comment, but here's my initial reaction...

A SCRIPT? They want us to use a script? No joke... they have written out an entire word for word script on how they want a signing done.

I think some of these Industry professionals" forget that we are independent contractors, not employees and they can't require all this training and have us adhere to a script and still consider us as contractors. It's a matter of behavior control.

I want to sit here and write out a far longer response... but I don't have time. Busy day today... from companies who pay me top dollar and don't require scripts or have to hold my hand through the whole process. UGH. Happy day, everyone!

Read the article...look at the site. I'm sure some of you will have something to say, if you haven't had a min stroke first.

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/29/13 9:52am
Msg #490200

Totally about the XYZ Organization.... Mini Stroke... no, Instant Vomit. I looked at everything, I'm thinking this is no more than a private and blocked blog from one of it's employees. UGH...

BTW friend... did you notice this Does Not Contain A Comment Section?

Reply by BobbiCT on 10/29/13 9:54am
Msg #490201

As Every State is Different ...

It should be interesting to have a National Standard Required Script when

Every State's notary public can do / no can do laws are different.

Every State's standards or laws regarding Unauthorized Practice of Law are different.

I didn't have time to delve into which State's Attorneys, both AG and members of the Real Property Bar Association, were on this committee and weighed in with their "the nation must do it my way" opinion.

Pennsylvia and California signing agent/notaries can do far more than Connecticut, Texas, Massachusetts and Georgia. Watch your future step: A private organization's "national standard script" does not overrule state law.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/29/13 10:01am
Msg #490203

What the IRS has to say about this

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Defined

"The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done. The earnings of a person who is working as an independent contractor are subject to Self-Employment Tax.
You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."

Reply by 101livescan on 10/29/13 10:16am
Msg #490211

Touche! n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/29/13 10:19am
Msg #490213

Link to script in body of message

http://signingprofessionalsworkgroup.org/signing-professional-standards/scripted-signings/

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/13 10:25am
Msg #490217

The script is very good (read it quickly)

IF the notary has no idea what they're doing...those who are going to screw up the deal by simply opening their mouth.

No need for this if they hire notaries who know their stuff.

JMO

Reply by John Tennant on 10/29/13 10:23am
Msg #490216

Re: What the IRS has to say about this

After reading the link it appears to me that the IRS could look upon those notaries, following the new process, as employees not independent contractors. I am sure that complaints to the IRS would provoke an investigation. As for me, I will do it my way. All of the experience notaries on this forum already do it correctly in their own way. They certainly do not need this BS. JMHO

Reply by LynnNC on 10/29/13 10:52am
Msg #490227

The problem is...

...most companies now want a background check to be by NNA. To get a background check by NNA you have to be certified and will have to pass a test on this stupid script.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/13 12:14pm
Msg #490259

"you have to be certified and will have to pass a test on

this stupid script."

Guess I won't be NNA certified any more.

Reply by sueharke on 10/29/13 2:03pm
Msg #490275

Re: What the IRS has to say about this

John, if this goes through, we are both going to be very busy completing form SS-8 and form 5498 (I think that says a taxpayer only owes the employee share of medicare and SS tax on the income) to protest the 1099 received. If the IRS gets enough of these forms for one company, it has got to get their attention.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 10:06am
Msg #490207

<<To achieve Certified Signing Specialist status, Notaries will be required to meet the following standards:

Adherence to the 10 guiding principles of the Certified Signing Specialist Code of Conduct, which cover signer privacy protection, professionalism, unauthorized advice, services and advertising guidelines, as well as reporting illegal or suspicious activity.

Using a standardized signing script that outlines how a signing should be conducted, how questions can be answered without providing unauthorized advice, and when contacting the lender or title company is necessary.

A passing score on an annual exam covering the signing script, knowledge of loan documents and best practices outlined in the Code of Conduct. Exams will be administered over the coming months by SPW-approved providers after the committee establishes a vendor review process and licenses qualified companies.

Passing a rigorous annual background screening including searches in state, local and federal records.

Maintaining Notary errors and omissions insurance of $25,000.>>

All of this just to obtain a Certified Signing Specialist...wtf is a CNSA for? And why would the NNA provide any type of guidance, or provide such a quote, when the NNA does have best practices listed in their training packets?

Marian, you're right in that it is all about control.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more companies hiring CNSA's as off site employees so they can be controlled. Question then is, is the latter a bad thing if you have a full-time job vs. self-employment?

Reply by lowerAL on 10/29/13 10:55am
Msg #490229

$1000.00 to become a member

Check is in the Mail!!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/29/13 3:18pm
Msg #490294

" Question then is, is the latter a bad thing if you have a full-time job vs. self-employment?"

YES!!!!! I'd venture to say that a large majority of us are in this field because we want to be able to call the shots on the use of our own time and to not have a boss! I could go on, but I still haven't finished reading this thread...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/13 10:15am
Msg #490210

My patootie

Annual exam?

Script?

Baloney

Seriously time for plan C - I'll take my 30+ years closing experience and retire it - concentrate on general notary work and enjoying what I do ... always wanted to work for myself and have no intention of giving that up for some self-appointed "standard".

Ugh

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/13 10:18am
Msg #490212

Purported members of this "Workgroup"

http://signingprofessionalsworkgroup.org/about/members/

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/29/13 10:27am
Msg #490219

No wonder I haven't gotten "the" email, I don't

work for these people/lenders

Reply by Notarysigner on 10/29/13 10:34am
Msg #490223

Also, good job Marian! n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 10/29/13 10:32am
Msg #490221

Re: Purported members of this "Workgroup"

II am completely flabbergasted over this group, especially since Valuamerica and Bank of America gave hundreds of thousands of business to Accurate National Signing Services in Wildomar and Lake Elsinore, CA, before closing their doors owing scores of notaries more than $30,000.

I would like to attend this meeting and ask them how they plan to vet their signing service companies.

And I don't see Lawyer's Title on this list. hmmm.

Reply by dgd/CA on 10/29/13 9:08pm
Msg #490358

Lawyers Title is owned by FNF... ugh... n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/13 3:11pm
Msg #490291

I'm with you, Linda. There is no way I'm playing this game

with XYZ. They keep pushing & pushing their BS agenda. I HAD their cert/bgc years ago. I've told the story many times here on the forum how Lexis-Nexis reported incorrect info in the report & I had a major hassle with them trying to get it corrected. The result was that I got a $1,000 award in the class action suit against LN. I absolutely don't trust XYZ in any way, shape or form.
In addition to that, there's no way I'd sign that release form FNF is pushing.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 10/29/13 10:26am
Msg #490218

They have an incorrect definition

1 – 4 Family Rider
This rider states the property is a multi-unit property.

NOT true, although the property could be a multi-unit property (up to 4 units), this rider is included when the property is an investment. The sub-title is "Assignment of Rents" and this is the rider that allows a lender to step in and intercept rent payments from tenants when the Mortgagor has stopped making their payments to the lender.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/29/13 10:58am
Msg #490230

Good show, Marian! n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/29/13 11:04am
Msg #490231

I wish I had more time to go over this today. Sadly, I don't. For work and personal reasons (my mom is being discharged from the hospital today after being there for a month, big day!).

But, when I saw this press release, I knew if I posted it here, the pros would be all over it. I think that the recent wave of BGC stuff is just the beginning of the efforts of this group. Interesting that they've only now surfaced... but we've all suspected for months that something was going on.

In briefly reviewing the site... the is some good information there for the complete novice, but for those of us who've been doing this a while? It's really ridiculous. My first objection was the script. I won my own business. Nobody is going to tell me how I should talk to people. Hire me to do a job, then get out of my way and let me do it, darn it. Anything else is way too much control and, IMO, constitutes an employee relationship. I'm not opposed to signing on as an employee... but doing so is an expensive process for these companies. Employees aren't cheap, even those who work occasionally or on assignment.

You guys simply cannot have it both ways... you either have ICs and let them work or you have employees that you want trained to follow a script.

Okay, now that I'm ready for the day, I'm outta here. I hope everyone has a wonderfully productive day!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:09am
Msg #490234

Novices will be misconstrued into thinking that this job

is a piece of cake, ha!

The script is good for one thing IMHO, gives the NEWBIE and idea of how any signing/closing should be conducted.

And that's about it...if they use word for word, the BO

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:11am
Msg #490235

Re: Novices will be misconstrued into thinking that this job

will may not be so comfortable signing.... <<hit the enter button too fast earlier..whups >>

Reply by Belinda/CA on 10/29/13 11:09am
Msg #490233

I received a "Notary Script" with a package the other day.

Had never seen one called that before. There was no way I was going to read the script to the guy. I handed to him. If I had said those things I would be liable for presenting the content and there was no way I was going to do that. He commented that it was ridiculous that they had a script for me to read to him. I'll have to find it to see what it said. Can't remember right now. It was about 1/5 of a typed out page.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:12am
Msg #490237

here's the script...

Signing Agent Closing Script: Refinance

Key:
Italics – Unspoken
Regular Font – Spoken
(Parentheses – Unspoken or Substitute data)

SECTION 1 – Introduction

Hello, my name is (NAME) and I am here on behalf of (TITLE & CLOSING COMPANY), the title and closing company working with (LENDER) to conduct your loan signing. We spoke earlier on the phone. It is nice to meet you.

SECTION 2 – Instructions

As the signing agent, you should then provide the borrower with a state or federally issued photo ID. Wait for the borrower to invite you inside. Ask the borrower where they would like to conduct the signing, suggesting that all signers sit next to each other to facilitate the signing. Confirm that all parties that need to sign are present. Check copies of borrower identification at this time. ID should be a state or federally issued photo ID such as a passport or driver’s license. If they are unable to provide ID you should call your Title Company for instruction before proceeding with the closing.

It is important as you proceed into the closing transaction that you follow the closing instructions precisely.

SECTION 3 – Opening

I’d like to start by giving an overview of the signing process. The entire process typically takes about 45-60 minutes, depending on your degree of experience with the process and familiarity with the documents. We will move patiently and deliberately through these documents, at your pace, so do not feel rushed.

I have printed an entire copy of the loan package for your records. (Hand borrower his or her copy.)

You should sign your name exactly as your name appears on the signature line of the documents. Some of the documents must be notarized; I may also be required to administer an oath before completing the notarization on certain documents. As we review each document, I will explain to you the document’s general purpose. Any questions beyond that related to fees, rates or other loan-specific items must be directed to your lender as I am not authorized to articulate beyond the general description of the documents. In addition, we must contact the lender or closing agent before making any changes or corrections to the documents.

Do you have any questions before we begin? If the borrower requests an electronic copy, please direct them to contact (TITLE & CLOSING COMPANY).

SECTION 4 – Closing Ceremony

As you walk through the documents with the borrower please find below definitions of the loan closing documents. It is suggested to use these descriptions as a guide as you walk the borrower through the loan closing documents. It is suggested as you go to the page to be signed you give them the brief definition of the documents below. Please note packages will come in various stacking order so it is recommended you be familiar with these definitions. These definitions are in alphabetical order and will not be the order your document package comes in, so you should be familiar with the general description of the documents listed below.

Borrower’s Certification Authorization
This document certifies all of the information provided the loan application is true and complete.

Errors & Omissions (E&O) and Compliance Agreement
This states that if there are any typographical or clerical errors on the closing documents, the borrower would agree to sign any documents that had to be corrected.

Flood Hazard Notice
This indicates whether or not the property is in an area designated as a flood zone area.

Form 4506-T Request for Transcript of Tax Return
This form authorizes the lender to obtain transcripts of tax returns.

GFE/Good Faith Estimate
The Good Faith Estimate is an estimate of all closing fees including pre-paid and escrow items as well as lender charges.

HUD/Settlement Statement
The HUD/Settlement Statement itemizes all closing costs; on pages 1 and 2 items that appear on this statement include real estate commissions, loan fees, points, payoffs and escrow amounts. Page 3 of the Settlement Statement is a comparison of the fees disclosed on the Good Faith Estimate (GFE) to the actual costs as listed on the settlement statement/HUD.

The bottom portion of Page 3 shows the loan terms. The loan amount, rate, term, principal and interest payment as well as total payment are at the bottom. (If the borrower has questions related to these amounts, direct the borrower to the lender.)

Identification Verification Form
This form verifies identity of the borrower and should read exactly as their state or federal issued ID reads.

Impound Account Letter
This is the form authorizing the lender to collect real estate taxes and homeowner’s insurance to be paid out of the borrower’s escrow account when they are due and payable.

Initial Escrow Account Disclosure Statement
This is a one-year snapshot of the borrowers escrow account.

Insurance Requirements
This document states that homeowners insurance is required during the term of the loan.

Itemization of Amount Financed
This describes the items in detail that comprise the amounts necessary to calculate the annual percentage rate.

Mortgage/Deed of Trust
This document is recorded in county land records as evidence of the lender’s security interest in the property.

Note
The Note is a written promise to pay a sum of money at a stated interest rate during a specified term.

Notice of Right to Cancel
This is the borrower’s notice of their right to cancel the transaction within a specified time frame.

Owner’s Affidavit
This states that the borrower acknowledges no additional liens, judgments, encumbrances or claims against the property. It also states that no one else owns the property besides the borrower, there’s no contract for sale, confirms marital status, no delinquent taxes and no zoning law violations.

Payment Letter
This is the borrower’s principal, interest, real estate taxes and homeowner’s insurance which total the monthly payment.

Riders (If applicable)

Planned Unit Development (PUD) Rider
This rider requires the borrower to pay fees or assessments that may be levied by a Homeowners Association (HOA) to prevent any liens by the association.
Second Home Rider
This rider states the borrower is not occupying the home as their primary residence.
1 – 4 Family Rider
This rider states the property is a multi-unit property.
Manufactured Home Rider
This rider states the property is a manufactured home.
Condominium Rider
This rider states the property is a condominium.
ARM Rider
This rider states this loan is an Adjustable Rate Mortgage (ARM) loan.
Servicing Disclosure Statement
This document discloses the fact that the lender has the right to sell, transfer or assign the servicing rights to the loan.

Signature Affidavit and Name Affidavit
The Signature & Name Affidavit lists variations of the borrowers name such as “AKA’s” that the lender may have located when checking their credit or when the title search was completed. The variations may differ from their name as it appears on the lender’s loan documents.

Truth in Lending (TIL)
This is the Truth in Lending statement. It will include the following information:

The annual percentage rate (APR)
The finance charge
The total of payments (the amount the borrower will have paid after they have made all of their scheduled mortgage payments)
Uniform Residential Loan Application/1003
This is the final, typed version of the loan application.

W-9
This form verifies the borrower’s Social Security Number.

SECTION 5- Ending the Transaction

(Make sure Borrower has a hard copy of the closing package, if he or she asks for an electronic copy please direct them to the Title Company; under no circumstances are you to email the documents to the borrower.)

If borrower does not have the proper funds to give you as per the closing instructions, please contact your Title Company for Instruction.

We have reviewed and you’ve signed all of the documents which conclude the signing. Do you have any further questions? It was very nice to meet you (borrower name). I hope you feel this was a positive closing experience. Thank you very much for your time.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:20am
Msg #490241

the problem, among others, I have with this script is the

part where the NSA is told to say that they are there on behalf of the SS/TC or other hiring party? Uh nope.

At the door, we exchange greetings, I say who I am, (do not show ID and have NEVER been asked), give the BO a business card, and after we are sitting at the table, docs out, and before I even check their ID's, I explain who I am, my company, and my role as an NSA, and bet your a$$ the words, independent contractor comes out along with NOT an employee of anyone involved in the transaction.

The above script is good again for the novice or newbie, but it is not as "simple" as they may make it seem. SOOOOO many things can go wrong, and they do not address pissed off BO.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/13 11:44am
Msg #490251

Can you imagine how much respect the borrowers would

have for us if they see we have to be provided a script by the hiring party? If you can't go in and handle the conversation without a script, you have a problem (not YOU personally, Cari...)

I'm not one who needs a teleprompter.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:51am
Msg #490254

LOL Linda! Well, I'll admit I may need a

teleprompter...depends on the site I'm on....LMFAO!

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/29/13 3:00pm
Msg #490285

Re: the problem, among others, I have with this script is the

<"part where the NSA is told to say that they are there on behalf of the SS/TC or other hiring party? Uh nope.">

Please provide your insights on the objection here. Thanks!


(btw, doesn't matter whether I've posted here for 5 months or 5 years, when I ask a question, I appreciate the responses/insights which seasoned professionals offer based upon their experiences - even if I feel too lazy to read the archived insights of yesteryear.)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/29/13 3:30pm
Msg #490299

Re: the problem, among others, I have with this script is the

This whole script sounds to me like it was written by someone who has never sat across the kitchen table from borrowers with a set of docs in front of them!

Reply by Linda_in_IN on 10/29/13 1:36pm
Msg #490273

Never heard it referred to as "Closing Ceremony"

Next thing coming will be a secret handshake that all notaries will need to know. Why, I don't know, but will be part of the "ceremony".

Reply by Belinda/CA on 10/29/13 2:06pm
Msg #490277

My script was about advising the borrower concerning

marital interest in the property. Stating guidelines concerning wives from the title company. There was something about the statements I was to read that did not set right with me. It was not my place to inform the borrower of the criteria. Places are putting more and more responsibility on the notary and less and less in our pocket.

Reply by sigtogo/OR on 10/29/13 11:18am
Msg #490240

Here's THE CODE:

http://signingprofessionalsworkgroup.org/code-of-conduct/

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/29/13 11:26am
Msg #490243

Re: Here's THE CODE:

<<4.6. Settlement Fees

The Certified Signing Specialist may identify and provide a general description of a fee or charge appearing on a signer’s HUD-1 or other closing statement, but may not explain, interpret or provide legal advice about the fee or charge. >>

Explaining the charges is providing a general explanation of ALL THE CHARGES on the HUD. One can't provide a general description? Uh, this what you paid for....general description of the obvious! The BO want to know WHAT the charge is for, the NSA merely points out and explains the charge. This IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE!

I'm going to let this shit go, cuz my blood pressure is rising!

Reply by CJ on 10/29/13 11:41am
Msg #490249

Are the borrowers going to get a script too?

It's going to be so easy when I show up with my script and hand out the parts for everyone to read.

What REALLY burns me is the little blub at the end where they pat themselves on the back and tell the whole world how indispensable they are:

"Established in 1957, the National Notary Association (NNA) is the leading professional authority on the American Notary office and is dedicated to educating, serving and advocating for the nation’s 4.4 million Notaries."

They do nothing but make our lives more difficult with all the cock-a-maimey hoops they keep inventing for us to jump through, just because they have time on their hands and they need more cash from us to keep their fake service going. It's like someone in 1957 grabbed a paper crown, but it on their head and said, "Now I'm the boss of all the notaries". I wish they would leave us alone and let us do our jobs without their meddling interference.

Maybe we should start a campaign to have all notaries quit their membership, so that NNA will have no capital to do their dirty work.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/29/13 3:33pm
Msg #490301

Are the borrowers going to get a script too? ROFLMAO!!!! n/m

Reply by Laurie Manzanares on 10/29/13 1:55pm
Msg #490274

Re: Take a deep breath...Are they a Union?

Hmmm, are they positioning themselves as a "Union" without actually using the word?
If you don't have their Certification you can't compete?
Where is the Independent Contractor bargaining power in all this?
Several large Title Companies meeting and fixing standards?

Still laugh out loud over giving the client a script too (good one CJ).

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/13 2:35pm
Msg #490280

Didn't we already do this back in 2008? n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/13 2:36pm
Msg #490281

Sorry, didn't mean to hit enter - see Msg #246022 n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/13 3:13pm
Msg #490292

Thanks, Renee, for pulling that up from the archives. It

seems XYZ sees an opportunity when business is down to push their agenda.

Reply by sueharke on 10/29/13 3:27pm
Msg #490297

Re: Thanks, Renee, for pulling that up from the archives. It

Actually that is true and a good business move. Why aren't Independent Notaries doing the same for our goals? Why aren't IC notaries letting the powers to be know that we disagree with XYZ?

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 10/29/13 3:47pm
Msg #490305

Re: Thanks, Renee, for pulling that up from the archives. It

<"Why aren't Independent Notaries doing the same for our goals?"> LIKE!!

Good place for the energy to go. Band together similarly to bring work to us Direct.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/13 4:44pm
Msg #490322

Another timely history lesson about BGCs

Just search "BGC" in 2006 - was big that whole year, but got really good in Sept - Dec. Harry gave us the opportunity to work towards something that could've been quite grand, had we spent all these years focused on what The Big Bucks were focused on.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/13 4:46pm
Msg #490323

Here - read this! Msg #148713 n/m

Reply by JandB on 10/29/13 3:45pm
Msg #490304

The 9 month old baby is in mom's arms grabbing for the pen,

stockings, dog is barking and room is full of lovely quilts.

Reply by JandB on 10/29/13 3:48pm
Msg #490306

sorry posted too soon

I was just thinking about trying to follow a script in the real world. Babies, cats on the table, dogs barking make it impossible and uncomfortable to allow anything so stiff as a script. I promise you the borrower's would not say to me "well, that was easy" as often as they do now.

Reply by JandB on 10/29/13 3:52pm
Msg #490308

How on earth will they enforce it.

I'm almost afraid to ask.