Posted by seddy on 10/7/13 9:42am
Msg #487216

reverse application vs reverse closing & GA law ....

Hello everyone,

As some of you know I relocated to GA from FL only to realize I'm not permitted to do loan signings here as it is an attorney state. That said, I've been approached quite a few times with requests I've had to turn down. Some requests have been for signings which seem to fall into gray areas but because I've been unable to determine with any degree of certainty whether or not they fall within my legal parameters, I've declined them.

I just got a VM with a request to do a reverse application and, because I've not had experience with RMes I'm not sure whether or not the application would contain documents I'm unauthorized to witness. I'm thinking that perhaps the application for the loan would be okay to do because it isn't the actual closing of the loan. Maybe one of you have had some experience or could shed some light for me on this matter before I return that phone call.

Thanks so much in advance!

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/7/13 9:45am
Msg #487218

RM applications generally do not have any notarizations but take as long (or longer) than the actual loan and usually longer than the average Refi.

Reply by Wais Sarwari on 10/7/13 9:48am
Msg #487219

So you would be expecting a long process make sure charge them accordingly, been there done that.

Reply by seddy on 10/7/13 9:50am
Msg #487220

Thanks to you both ... still not sure about legality ... n/m

Reply by Darlin_AL on 10/7/13 10:39am
Msg #487222

There is no TC involved in the app, pmt problems if it

is not a 4-5 star company here, you have no recourse w/their client. Also, it can be really really dreary situation, unlike loan signings.

Reply by Bear900/CA on 10/7/13 10:41am
Msg #487223

Re: Thanks to you both ... still not sure about legality ...

Msg #484690

Reply by Malbrough_LA on 10/7/13 11:19am
Msg #487226

I'm not certain regarding GA law; however, that being said, this was discussed at length at the LNA convention in Baton Rouge. As Louisiana notaries, we are advised to NOT do loan apps under any circumstances. No notary is required for the process. I trust my trainer as she's been in every facet of the real estate process for over 20 years. What she explained to us was that a lot of companies love to send notaries as "a show of authority even when they're not required". Tread cautiously is all I will say. Hope I helped!

Reply by Bear900/CA on 10/7/13 12:45pm
Msg #487236

Hi Ryan,

I agree 100% about exercising caution if uncertain.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, the coming of age of the CFPB two years ago and its inaugural of entrapments three years ago (start of Dodd-Frank), leveled the playing field of knowledge for everyone on the loan side of the business.

My experience has been that those in the business the longest have the hardest time grappling with and understanding the changes.

Any explanations related to mortgages my first question would be to ask how much the person has delved into the CFPB’s new rules. If it’s zero, then that is my first exercise of caution.

I had drafted a letter to the CFPB to try to obtain a clearer understanding of the notary’s limits in regard to signing HECM applications. “You know you’re in trouble when.” was directly related to this effort. Msg #483796

The next day the new definition of ‘loan originator’ was released so I gave up my attempt to contact their senior counsel and provided their explanation in my above post.

I know the Western Regional Director of the CFPB, and we have communicated with each other on a personal level, but I felt contacting him would be like contacting someone at the Federal Reserve to ask a home office tax deduction question. My past experience is their counsel will state very firmly they have provided us with ‘written rules’ the latest being the Sept 12th Final Rule including their definition of a loan originator.

I doubt the CFPB will ever answer a question directly related to notaries and our connection to loans. They are much more interested in examination procedures for bankers and brokers. Their murkey guidelines however, are the only ones that matter.
Best!

Ben

Reply by BobbiCT on 10/7/13 12:18pm
Msg #487232

I think this is a good question for a GA state agency - consumer protection or banking.

There is a very black line between picking up a package of documents and dropping them in a FedEx box and assisting a borrower in completing a mortgage application by helping them determine which documents the lender requested, whether the documents they are sending back are what the lender is looking for (say, needing the 2012 tax return versus the 2011 tax return that the borrower hands you), putting the package together, and reviewing the application with the borrower to make certain it is complete (check that all the blanks are filled in and boxes checked) before the borrower signs it.

As states, notary not needed BUT you may need some other state license "to do an application" for a mortgage.

Reply by seddy on 10/7/13 12:43pm
Msg #487235

Thank you all. I put in a call to the GA bar and they are sending me some material to review. If this doesn't clear things up I was told I can submit questions in writing to obtain the opinion of the UPL committee. Meanwhile, my plan is to play it safe -- not a risk taker in matters of law. :-) Apparently there are plenty of notaries doing signings here who aren't attorneys and have no qualms about it. Either these folks are engaging in UPL or they know something I wish I knew that makes it okay. Hopefully I'll learn something soon. :-)

Reply by Bear900/CA on 10/7/13 12:57pm
Msg #487238

Clarification on my previous comments

My comments are not regarding loan signings in attorney states.They are about collecting 1009 signatures as we collect 1003 signatures.

They are also about the distinction between a LO employee and a notary contractor.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/7/13 2:04pm
Msg #487272

"Either these folks are engaging in UPL or they know something I wish I knew that makes it okay"

Nope - all they know is the companies are telling them "notaries there do it all the time!!" - and they have no idea - philosophy is if the SS says it's okay for me to do it I guess it is..

Sheeples.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/7/13 3:53pm
Msg #487294

Have you tried finding a small RE attorney that you could

work through. You're getting the calls, so there has to be a way to work through someone IMO.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/7/13 5:31pm
Msg #487313

GA requires attorney hands-on if closing a deal

affecting GA property - telephone presence doesn't satisfy the requirement.

Those outside GA who have signed GA property with attorney on phone - it's my guess this was cleared with title prior to the signing since the people were going to be out of state. Or, as we know happens, they just did it that way and are hoping for the best.