Posted by TR/NC on 9/25/13 8:08pm
Msg #486007

Acknowledging in front of the signers

I went to a closing this evening. Another Notary was already doing a different property for them.

I am told to take a seat at the dining room table with them.

I watch and listen to the other Notary do her closing. I saw some of her docs ALREADY had her notary stamp on them BEFORE the borrowers signed the forms.

She got to the deed it was not stamped she said the reason this one is not acknowledged is because docs were running late and "they" didn't have to acknowledge it. However, she signed the page.

Who is "they"????

The Notary did not bring in a handbag or a briefcase, she only had the docs and some pens.

I start my closing by having them sign my journal, we proceed when I stamped and signed the pages in front of them I was asked why didn't she do the same?

I said I don't know, I cant answer that question.

They said maybe she was just trying to get paid?

Really???? Wonder the signing agency that hired her would think about her actions and the NC SOS for that matter?

Reply by jba/fl on 9/25/13 9:40pm
Msg #486013

Maybe she was just the courier? n/m

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 9/25/13 10:04pm
Msg #486016

What this notary did doesnt surprise me..I just heard tonight that a notary I know went to a closing the night before the closing date on the documents and told the BO not to tell anyone! Say what..I hope that BO went screaming to someone..How sad that notaries think they can get away with this kind of thing..in the end I hope they get whats coming to them!

Reply by BobbiCT on 9/26/13 6:20am
Msg #486025

:( They get their $50 ...

"in the end I hope they get whats coming to them!"

Sadly, Claudine this has been going on from the first notary (New Haven, CT). They get their $50, "good job A+ white glove volume business" rating and race to the next $50 job. It is all about quantity, not quality.

As long as the papers look good, the borrower doesn't complain and doesn't want to get out of the loan later on, and the loan doesn't head south into foreclosure, nothing will happen. Odds in favor of the vast number of notaries who do this versus the few lawsuits.

Borrowers don't care; they got what the wanted. What a bargain for the lenders, signing services and title insurance companies! Today's NSAs are doing more working, paying for more certifications, insurance and supplies at 2013 prices while working at fees lower than 2008 rates. Lenders and title insurance companies do NOT care. Risk versus reward - and the financial reward is much higher than the risks of improper notarizations that are never caught.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/13 6:27pm
Msg #486166

Sadly, I think you nailed it! Few really care, except for us n/m

Reply by CH2inCA on 9/26/13 9:37am
Msg #486034

Different MO

I'm not saying that having the certs 'stamped' before the signing is the right way to do it. But I can't see where, starting the closing by having them sign the journal isn't on the same side of the fence.

What are they signing for if you haven't yet notarized a document? Maybe it's the way I'm reading it; but that cart is still in front of the horse.

I've read on this forum before notaries that place their seal on their certificates before the signing and sign the certificates at the table, completing the notarial act.

Reply by Les_CO on 9/26/13 9:53am
Msg #486042

Re: Different MO

Just because you’ve read it here doesn’t make it so! (Unless the post is from Hugh)

Reply by apsnltch on 9/26/13 9:56am
Msg #486044

Re: Different MO

In the face of receiving flack: IS THERE A RULE AGAINST "Stamping" your certs prior to going to the borrower's to sign???

I feel in reviewing the paperwork prior to sitting with the borrower that it helps in reviewing the docs to go ahead and put my notary stamp where I will need to be signing...It helps to not miss a spot if things get hecktic at the table.....or long and drawn out for some reason. I don't sign ahead of time....If they sign, I sign.....If they don't sign, I don't sign. What difference does it make if I stamped my information prior to going to them (providing I didn't sign prior to them)?

Reply by sueharke on 9/26/13 11:59am
Msg #486069

Re: Different MO

Because a person may get that stamped cert and forge your name on the cert. I had two people forge my name as a CPA on letter to lenders that I reviewed their sch C on a tax return - which I did not do. The forgers signature was to pretty to be mine. The first case was found immediately by a smart LO and the second was found 4 years later when the file was reviewed.

Reply by walthtz on 9/26/13 1:16pm
Msg #486091

Re: Different MO

Here is my take, if the Notary stamps the documents first & then at the Table the loan cancels or cancels before you get to the table, & the Company that hired you wants you to send those blank documents back & in your haste you put them in the shipping box. Now the company gets the documents back already Notarized, but the BO signatures are missing?
I would say the Notary is in BIG trouble.
What then??????

Reply by apsnltch on 9/26/13 5:29pm
Msg #486161

Re: Different MO

The stamp of the notary is not the notorization. This signature of the Notary and completing the cert is the act of notarizing.

I do not put the embossed seal on until after signing

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/26/13 4:56pm
Msg #486159

Re: Different MO

"IS THERE A RULE AGAINST "Stamping" your certs prior to going to the borrower's to sign???"

I'd suggest you check your handbook/manual or check with your SOS - there IS a rule in Florida - but I'm curious why anyone would need a specific rule on that - that's just common sense.


JMHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/26/13 9:46am
Msg #486038

MO here -

1. Partially complete the certs at home while putting package together (venue, date, names, my name under notary signature line, etc etc)

2. At table - finish notarizations with signature and seal/stamp.

3. Get journal signed when signing is completed.

My system.

To answer the OP's question - hiring agency would probably care less as long as the job gets done - the NC SOS may be a different story depending on NC Notary law. Here in FL it's LAW that we complete our notarizations at the table in front of the signers - not later, and certainly not before when you haven't done anything yet.

JMHO

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/26/13 11:12am
Msg #486056

First thing I wonder is...is she really the notary?

Or someone the notary hired? Someone the notary trained and hired to point and sign, paying her $20/hr?
Curious.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/26/13 11:52am
Msg #486066

hence, the courier comment.

Reply by apsnltch on 9/26/13 12:36pm
Msg #486080

Re: hence, the courier comment.

All Valid points...maybe I should re-think. I NEVER put my seal on ahead of time....I do that with the client....but I have a lot of times put my stamp and completed the "Acting In" part where I have to sign, somewhat as just an additional reminder that I have to sign as well as a time saver.

Thanks for the responses

Reply by Yoli/CA on 9/26/13 1:26pm
Msg #486097

So, apsnltch ... clue me in, please.

What's the difference between your seal and your stamp? I'm curious 'cause to me, it's one and the same.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/13 2:59pm
Msg #486134

LOL! Thought the same when I read, Yoli n/m

Reply by apsnltch on 9/26/13 5:26pm
Msg #486160

Re: So, apsnltch ... clue me in, please.

My Stamp is a self Ink Stamper that says:
MY NAME
Notary Public, State of State
County of County
My Commission Expires 00/00/20xx
Acting in the County of _______________

I put this stamp under any signature line that I have to sign on. All the information is right there. I alot of times do that prior to going to the borrower. Then when they sign I complete the Cert. Fill in the Acting in Line if it pertains , Sign after the borrower does and place my embossed seal.
You don't have one? I have had places here in Michigan Locally that I have not had my Stamp with me and notarized one page that would remain here in the state and they would not except it without this stamp. If I just wrote it in, I guess, they think anybody could have wrote the information in. They wanted a Stamp.

My Seal is my Embosser that puts the Embossed Seal on the Document. It also has my name, State and County withi in the circle of it and Notary Public in the center of it.

They are two completely different items.

Michigan Law does not require the use of the embossed seal or a rubber stamp on a document.
However, documents sent out of state may require an embossed notary seal. (SOS) I pretty much use both all the time.

Reply by TR/NC on 9/26/13 2:30pm
Msg #486125

I introduced myself she said I'm "Jane Doe" Notary I live in _____________, NC. I'm here tonight working for ____________ and told me the name of the company that hired her. A large and well know company.

NC law states we are not allowed to put our stamp on the document until it has been signed. We are under no circumstances allowed to pre-stamp prior to the appt to save time. We do not use loose leaf certificates in NC.

A journal is not required in NC, however I want to be covered in the event I'm ever questioned by the hiring party.

Reply by apsnltch on 9/26/13 5:41pm
Msg #486163

Obviously all states are different as we all should have learned in the past on this forum.

As far as the state of Michigan, a Stamp is a stamp with my personal Notary information on it. It is not required by the State of MI but relieves the effects of writer cramp. A Seal as you see (Seal) written on many documents (off to the side from where you would sign and often times there is a big blank area there) is where you put your embossed seal that crimps the paper of the documen. this only has my name and that I am a Notary Public and with Michigan law only has to be placed if the document is crossing a state line. (Whihc is most of the time)

Michigan does not require a Journal either.