Posted by Jana Miller on 9/3/13 4:07pm
Msg #483056

Indian Reservation information I found (for California)

I was looking something up and found this.. Cut and paste the link. I had asked about notarizing on reservations.. This is for California and sales tax exempt etc... but look at the acknowledgement.. it says "California Notary Public OR authorized Tribal Representative" This is exactly what I would be doing too... it was a purchase.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/boe146res.pdf

So for me this answers my question. Next time I get a call to do it like I did a few days ago I will go and do it. Thanks for your input.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/3/13 4:28pm
Msg #483059

Jana - your question asked if you could notarize on

the reservations - did you get your answer to that? CAN you go onto the tribal property and notarize there? Or do you have to meet the person off the reservation? If you said previously that you found out, I missed it. I seem to recall something about it being federal lands. This form, to me, doesn't answer that question.

Reply by linda/ca on 9/3/13 4:35pm
Msg #483061

Glad you are now in your comfort zone from the "California Notary Public OR authorize Tribal Representative" statement.

I hope the seller realize about the no tax law.

"Sales tax does not apply when a retailer transfers ownership of merchandise (tangible personal property), including a vehicle,vessel, or aircraft to an Indian purchaser in Indian country, provided the Indian lives in Indian country. The Indian purchaser is not required to live on the specific reservation where ownership transfers."

The last sentence is particularly interesting; guess you go by the honor system? How would you disprove it?

Reply by linda/ca on 9/3/13 4:38pm
Msg #483062

I thought the same, Linda, initially. I think she's going by

the "California Notary Public OR authorized Tribal Representative." on the form.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/3/13 4:41pm
Msg #483063

I'm just really curious...this is a great subject..

I remember many years ago, working for an attorney, client called for a consult (forget exactly what the issue was - want to say personal injury) - outside attorneys - "civilian" attorneys - were not allowed on tribal property.

Reply by linda/ca on 9/3/13 5:01pm
Msg #483067

Linda H/FL: Awww, Linda! Just when I thought I could plead

ignorance and now you gave me too much information! Well back to the drawing board...LOL!

Agree, very interesting! Especially residing in California with many Indian Reservations.

Reply by Jana Miller on 9/3/13 5:23pm
Msg #483068

I suppose I was asking both - can do? Where?

You are right. I was thinking the certificate said "California Notary"..... assumed I could go on. I just called the SOS & NNA. Wait time too long and my ear hurts. LOL. So I sent a message for answer. So funny I can't find a dang thing on it. Says Sycuan reservation is in San Diego county, state of California so what would be the big deal. Hmmmm..... my search continues and for what? I will probably never get another call about that again. BUT...we will all know for someone else.

to be continued.........

Reply by John Tennant on 9/3/13 5:42pm
Msg #483069

Re: I suppose I was asking both - can do? Where?

I doubt if you will get the correct answer from the NNA. Very few correct answers come out of that organization.
JMHO

Reply by MikeC/TX on 9/3/13 5:54pm
Msg #483070

I am pretty sure that you, as a notary and a California official, probably cannot legally notarize on tribal land, even if you are asked to do so by the tribal council. My reasoning is the fact that the reservation is NOT part of California or the United States - it is sovereign territory. Can you notarize a document while standing on Mexican soil?

I lived in a part of NY that had a couple of tribal reservations, and even the police were not allowed on those lands unless they were invited. That was not NY law - it was Federal law. There were some ugly incidents that revolved around the fact that NY wanted to tax the sale of cigarettes on the reservations; ultimately, the native Americans won in court.

The document you found says "California Notary Public OR authorized Tribal Representative" doesn't mean what you think it means - because if it did, an "authorized Tribal Representative" would also have the right to sign it off the reservation, and we all know that's not true. It's an either/or choice that depends on where the signing is taking place.

As for those who have notarized on a reservation or at a casino on native American land - your act was probably invalid. Thankfully, most states have laws that do not invalidate a document just for an improper notarization.

But you should probably stop doing that...

Reply by HisHughness on 9/3/13 9:38pm
Msg #483096

I think Mike has given wise advice for California notaries

I may need to explain my earlier answer, where I said that absent tribally appointed notaries, I would notarize. I think the only remaining Indian reservation in Texas is one created by the state government, not the federal government, and I think it may be on a different footing than other, federally created reservations. I say that because I don't think a state has the power to carve out a portion of its territory and create a separate nation. Because of that, as long as there is uncertainty about the answer, I would consider notarizing. I don't think I would do that in California, or Arizona, or Oklahoma, though.

I have queried the tribal council of the Alabama-Coushatta Reservation here to see how notarization is currently handled, and also queried the SOS, which has been less than helpful.

Sometimes, I love this forum. Sometimes it stinks worse than an Aggie's underwear.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/3/13 6:23pm
Msg #483072

Just spoke with OR SOS. Extremely interesting. Bottom line

was:

Reservations are Sovereign soil, but some federal and state laws still apply. Tribal leaders can designate Tribal "Notaries" under Tribal authority, and Oregon recognizes Tribal Notarial Acts. (ORS 194.558)

However, some Tribal properties are not necessarily Sovereign land, and he didn't know if casinos, for instance, were considered such outside the purposes for which they exist. In the realm of the NSA, since there have been no challenges to Notarizations on Indian premises, or in the cases where signings *were* on Reservation land, all is good and valid because nothing has proved untoward.

Going forward, his suggestion was to add verbiage to the Venue portion of the Certificate like: "State of Oregon, Lincoln County, Siletz Reservation"... if there seems to be a need. The reasoning hung it's hat on the implied authority for the Notary to be on Indian Land.

So, nothing settled here, but a fun afternoon of lively discussions with a few folks at the State's Notary Division.

Reply by John Tennant on 9/3/13 6:31pm
Msg #483073

Re: Just spoke with OR SOS. Extremely interesting. Bottom line

Very interesting, however, adding verbiage like that appears to be a "no-no" in Ca.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/3/13 7:10pm
Msg #483078

My apologies, sorry to butt in. n/m

Reply by Jana Miller on 9/3/13 7:23pm
Msg #483079

You are not butting in at all....

.....That is what the forum is all about. But that was right about not adding verbiage here in California. I just think I won't ever do them. I thought it would be an easy answer. And I agree its been very interesting conversation and opinions. I love this forum.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/3/13 8:45pm
Msg #483089

Mike's post was very information and.....

.......I gather the alternative to violating any tribal land/federal laws would be to notarize at a mutual spot that's considered "California". Your post in the other thread mentioned an Indian man buying a car. If the man left the reservation to buy the car, I'm sure he could also leave said reservation to get paperwork notarized. For this unique situation - & going forward - locate the closest public point that's "California" and ask the person to meet you there, still charging him/her a travel fee.

In fact, this may be a viable new GNW opportunity. Meet with that car dealership agent, let him know if he has clients - whether from the reservation or not - that need their auto documents notarized, call you while the client is there at the dealership. You can meet the them there, or in the case of the client from the reservation, you can meet him at <as long as it's "California">. Just a thought.....

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/3/13 8:46pm
Msg #483090

"Informative" n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/3/13 10:06pm
Msg #483097

Beautiful solution, and marketing coup, Lisa. n/m

Reply by linda/ca on 9/3/13 9:23pm
Msg #483094

Don't be sorry, Susan Fischer, funny thing is that the same

suggestion was made in the California Handbook that I mentioned as a "point of interest"on an earlier thread from a day or two ago, that I discovered from some research on this topic:

"As an aside, I thought it was interesting that if performing a notarization on a military base, it was suggested that you list the name of the reservation in addition to the state you are performing the act. Again, referring to Military and Naval Reservations; no mention of Indian Reservations."

Interesting!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/3/13 10:32pm
Msg #483099

The military reservation makes sense, considering

installations overseas, like what used to be the Canal Zone, for instance. When I extended my Visa as an Army wife in Panama in the 60s, the paperwork was a bi-lingual, multi-governmental, Isthmus-traversing for weeks, mind boggling stamping maze leading to the ONE STAMP, and the elaborate signature of the Man Who Signs In Green Ink. OUr landlady's sister was my Panamanian Guru; typed like the wind, translated on the fly, knew the ropes, and dated the President of Panama in college. He wanted to marry her, but her Mother said no, he'd never amount to anything.

Anyway, the issue of Indian Land Laws has been a great bunch of conversations, no?