Posted by pat/WA on 9/26/13 12:29pm
Msg #486078

Number of signings

The number of signings is way down. Notaries that rely on signings to make living are finding new ways of earning money. So, the number of notaries is down. Therefore, those few notaries that are left should demand higher fees per signing.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 9/26/13 12:30pm
Msg #486079

????? n/m

Reply by HSH/WA on 9/26/13 12:40pm
Msg #486081

Re: In general I agree with you

but we seem to be going through a period of even lower fees - evidently with notaries that will accept them. Ultimately those notaries will figure out that at $40 to $60 a closing you can't make a living, and when that happens and they leave the business then I think you will see your prediction come true. At the same time and for the same reasons, the number of SSs will decline and the current cut throat bidding war they are engaged in will subside as well and the marginal ones drop out. The number of notaries and SSs inflated to accommodate the refi boom which is now over and it will take a while to adjust back to normal numbers.

Reply by Christine/OK on 9/26/13 12:49pm
Msg #486083

Yes, Hugh, my analysis rings true with your assessment. n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 9/26/13 2:01pm
Msg #486114

Hugh is not part of this thread.

He is off attending his alligator training class.

Reply by HSH/WA on 9/26/13 2:44pm
Msg #486127

Re: Hugh is not part of this thread.

Signings are off, fees are down, but I'm feeling good - one of my posts was mistaken for Hugh.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/13 2:53pm
Msg #486133

Re: Hugh is not part of this thread.

Hugh, Harry, Howard . . . whateva!

Reply by JanelWI on 9/26/13 1:03pm
Msg #486086

You know what. I charge what I charge that is commensurate with my experience and overhead involved. I don't extort more money unjustifiably when times are good or bad. I don't charge title companies or signing services any differently from each other. I make sure I keep tabs on my costs involved so that I am sure I can keep the lights on and my profit is equal to what my services are actually worth. I choose to treat my business relationships with integrity and consistency. It is not only the fee. There are those of us that work primarily title direct and work very hard to establish a good working relationship and I would never think of charging them more because some other signing agents have dropped out to make ends meet some other way.

I survived through the mortgage crisis and I will continue to survive. Diversity and change for one's business is essential. We should never put all our eggs in one basket and we should always seek to improve, diversify and increase our knowledge and skill set to help prepare for changes in this industry and open doors to other industries that we can serve.

Bottom line, I have gradually earned more money over the years because I have earned it. My momma told me long ago that money is a means to an end. It does not define us and we should not let it override our moral sense of integrity, honor, and preservation of independent thought.

It is a man made economic construct that is part illusionist, and temptress. It is neither good nor bad and has no real intent other than what human beings place upon it. Money should not be the measure of doing what is right for right's sake on a human level. If you let a "thing" control you....you lose control of yourself. It becomes easy to turn one's head and justify things we would never want perpetrated on us. Integrity is a narrow road, and it is never easy, but one of the many roads you will never get lost.

It is never a good idea to treat clients in a reactionary way due to business "climate" changes. You were willing to work cheaper before....if times are tough there is no reason for them to think you won't continue to work that cheaply now. I guarantee they won't concur with your sentiment. I appreciate your perspective, I just don't agree for long term business success.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/26/13 1:18pm
Msg #486093

Sounds as though your parents and esp. your mother taught you well. I like that you understand the word integrity. There is a lack of integrity in this world and I do wish more would examine what it truly means and apply to their lives.

Kudos to your mom.

Reply by Christine/OK on 9/26/13 1:12pm
Msg #486088

Speaking of reactinary Janel . . .

In the above postings absolutely NOT one person spoke of extortion, raising their prices, charging more in good times than in bad. Regret to say that the mark was missed when you read the post.

They simply identified that they will be glad when the general market pricing returns to normal.

This is my assessment as well and in concurrence with the professional posts above by Pat & Hugh.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 9/26/13 1:20pm
Msg #486095

Christine~Did you read the OP's last sentence?

My understanding was same as Janel. The word "extortion" was never used. However, by inference ....

JMO

Reply by jba/fl on 9/26/13 1:26pm
Msg #486098

Re: Christine~Did you read the OP's last sentence?

I caught that as well. But, my mind qualified that to mean she would return to her normal pricing of when things were better. Let's face it - many have been beaten down to levels they realize they are working harder than previously, and would love to return to a more upbeat level of comfort.

As much as Pat and I may disagree, I have to defend her on this one as I do believe she is not thinking of price gouging....it just seems out of character for her IMHO.

Reply by Christine/OK on 9/26/13 1:31pm
Msg #486102

I 'read' posts through a perspective of the spirit of

which the verbiage was intended.

I tend not to read verbatim as it can cause unnecessary upset, turmoil, and roil the waters are have been turbulent for weeks now on this particular topic.

@ Julie: Thanks.
@ Pat: If I 'read' your intention incorrectly - please post and I will 'Stand Corrected,' but I, like Jule, recognize your character from your other posts and Janel's inference would be diametrically opposed to your demeanor . . .

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/26/13 2:13pm
Msg #486118

Re: Christine~Did you read the OP's last sentence?

<<"she would return to her normal pricing of when things were better">>

That was the way I understood it, also. The $50-$70 of today may be the norm in this market - as everyone is so price sensitive right now; and it <is> scary to think it could be the new "normal" if the average nsa accepts.

There's balance in the business model way of thinking: can't bring fees down if costs are up (which ours are); but wrong to go to the other end of the spectrum -if/when supply of suitable notaries decreases and Demand increases- by "sticking it" to the SS or TC. Don't think this was being advocated.

I got to tune in to Scores's pricing webinar and couple of things Mr. Brook shared:

1. Desired Revenue driven ultimately by Pricing and operational Costs (something to remember is to factor in a Salary for yourself when doing your pricing analysis)

2. Customers are looking for value; service providers can look for ways to make their "value proposition" higher (he used ex. about wine - even cheap folks like me are leery about the $3 bottle of wine, although it might be quite satisfactory and rival the more expensive brands); again, it's about perception . . .

which brings me to #3. (Someone asked) How much should credentials factor into your pricing?

A: Credentials should be Balanced with experience AND testimonials. Everyone expects an attorney to know the law and be credible but her fees are generally best proportioned with the above.

This got me to thinking: really need to ask clients for their feedback. Share their experience with the notary - positive or negative (not necessarily public).

If in future, the nsa supply <does> decrease and demand opens up for quality agents, we need to be ready with our value proposition (sell ourselves!) and how the service we provide is "second to none." Thus, why our $xxx and above fee should be eagerly accepted. Future business is at stake here!

Reply by JanelWI on 9/26/13 1:28pm
Msg #486100

Re: Speaking of reactinary Janel . . .

"So, the number of notaries is down. Therefore, those few notaries that are left should demand higher fees per signing".

I don't think I misunderstood. I clearly said I understood the sentiment, but did not agree long term. Extort was meant to imply raising fees in a reactionary way. Extort, garner, ask, elicit, obtain...whatever, it is a word with many meanings depending upon the context.

Reply by Christine/OK on 9/26/13 1:35pm
Msg #486103

A lexicon lesson is unnecessary Janel . . .

Please take a moment to read my post above. 'nuff said.

Reply by Luckydog on 9/26/13 1:51pm
Msg #486111

Re: A lexicon lesson is unnecessary Janel . . .

You can "demand" all you want, doesn't mean a thing. There is always another notary in line to take your place, especially in slow times when people do this as a part time job and will do seasonal work at Walmart.

Reply by BestFlCloser on 9/26/13 2:17pm
Msg #486121

We've seen this before

Once again when business slows down the SS and TC seem to want to reduce the fees that we get. Additionally, they want more services without extra charges. What they are really saying is that we should share in the losses caused by the downturn, but not the profits when things get better.

We went through this about 4 years ago and it's happening again. It happened 8 & 12 years ago in the same way. I keep my prices steady, deliver the same superior service and it if get's a bit slow, so be it. I know what my costs are and won't lose money because someone who's working in this industry is just doing it for beer money. After a while the SS's and TC's will not tolerate a constant stream of errors and the pendulum will swing back. One of the SS/TC is offering a monthly bonus for good work of about $40, of course at the other end there are folks working for them at $60 and $70. They're making a big deal of the bonus, when in fact the notaries are being underpaid big time and think they should be grateful.

Stick to you prices, do good work and the lowballers will be out of the way shortly.

Reply by pat/WA on 9/26/13 2:29pm
Msg #486124

stand corrected

I was intending to say that when everything returns to "normal" and the climb on the bandwagon ($40.00) notaries have gone to work at Walmart I will be able to continue to receive the fees that I feel my work is worth and the fees that will pay my overhead and allow a small profit.

Reply by HSH/WA on 9/26/13 2:52pm
Msg #486131

Re: No Pat don't "stand corrected"

Just ignore those on NR that like to bite and scratch.

Reply by Christine/OK on 9/26/13 4:02pm
Msg #486145

@ Pat: Thanks so much for confirming that we are . . .

on track with the meaning within your message. I know that you don't need someone to stand up and fight for you . . . just thought the 'reactionary' reply was a bit over the top!

All is well that ends well. We learn and grow each and every day in our experiences and from each other. I value each exchange because, as Sir Isaac Newton eloquently stated: "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

Blessings to everyone.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/26/13 3:19pm
Msg #486137

I'm not sure that I follow your thinking on this one.

Economics 101--supply & demand. When supply exceeds demand it drives prices down.
I haven't lowered my fees & don't intend to. My cost of business hasn't gone down.

Reply by Luckydog on 9/26/13 4:47pm
Msg #486156

Re: I'm not sure that I follow your thinking on this one.

I have never lowered my prices either (nor raised them sadly enough), and have them clearly posted, so I do not get the "lowball" offers. My services are posted when they call me from the SS sights I am registered to. It really aggravates me when they try and negotiate a fee because it is close by, or only a few pages (right). The worst part is, these SS always pay late or even at all, or are new to here and not registered to check them out. The title companies remain charging the buyer the same closing fee, so the only ones lining their pockets at our expense is the SS cutting their costs on us. Everyone needs to remain true to their prices and stick with them.

Reply by JanelWI on 9/27/13 7:40am
Msg #486215

Christine

Christine, in my opinion, there was really nothing to defend for Pat. I simply had a different perspective than Pat for long term business. I agree with NVSLady, Lucky Dog, Jbl/Fl and many others that voiced their opinion. At the end of the day, they would all love us to charge $30 and $40 for our services. That does not go away in good times or bad. I charge what a I charge based on my costs etc....as I said, as well as to also keep the lights on and make a profit. For me, I also look at the way things are done and choose to decide if how I intend to treat a customer is how I would want to be treated.

In the area I am in when it is slow, that is when the lowballers come creeping out of the woodwood work even more; not the opposite. In good times....well.....that is when I do a little risk management assessment and work to fill the coffers for the inevitable time when things do slow down. So, I have take considerable time analyzing the demographic I am in and decided to take the approach of keeping fees in line with the cost of doing business. I find no fault with what Pat said at all. My perspective is different for many reasons, and my posts can be, verbose enough at times:-)