Posted by Fuzzy1955 on 9/11/13 7:01am
Msg #484102

Times Are Tough?

Recently, I had two things happen to me that made me decide to write this post. The first one relates to a client who I have done a few orders this year (3) who has put out a new website. This first client is a signing service.

On their website, the user has the ability to take courses, (for free), take exams, fill out your profile, and add a picture of yourself all of which add to your “Nova Score”. The purpose of the score is to assure you of a higher position in their system when they have work.

I am all for it! At least until I got to their contract which only offered $60 for their work! Now I know why I have only had three orders!

The second instance is a company that I already do business with (1 order this year). They are a title agency. They have now sent me two emails SOLICITING me to acknowledge that times are tough and that I should accept their new, all inclusive fee, of $75. This fee includes printing and fax backs!
The short version is that I have not responded, which was the point of their second email. With such a high volume of work given to me, why would I respond?

So what are they telling me or asking me? They are telling me I need to take less or RISK not doing business with them. I accept that.

Here are the facts. In the title industry, there are two major components of the fees that are earned by title companies. The first is s settlement fee and the second is the title insurance premium. While I was involved in the title industry, the average operational NET fee earned (this is after paying the Title Insurance Underwriter their portion) was between $800 and $1000 for the average refinance transaction.

If they are paying a Signing Service, they are paying an AVERAGE between $125 and $150 and there might be some small regional differences in that number. If they are dealing directly with the Notary, the AVERAGE fee is less than $100.

Now to the heart of the matter. Title insurance premiums are regulated in the majority of States; there are a few that do not regulate them. As business has declined, Title Insurance Underwriters have not submitted for rate decreases. This MEANS that the title agent closing the transaction is making NO less than they did before, THEY JUST HAVE LESS BUSINESS. I assure you that the Signing Services are still making the same amount as well.

So why is it that these companies think my services are worth less ONLY because volume has declined?

Stand your ground! I have even been asking for increases in fees for fringe distance signings, only to be told of the 16 to 23 other notaries they have to call. In both of these instances, I am handling the signings at my requested fee!

Reply by BobtheElder on 9/11/13 7:41am
Msg #484107

I'm fortunate enough to not need this as a full time income these days, but I'm getting tired of the SS offering me $75 for a 50 mile round trip. Also, if they tell me they have to call others and get back to me I tell them not to bother. I've got better things to do than play their games.

Yes, business has slowed, but I do not see Title cutting their fees one bit, so why should we?

I always stand my ground on my fees, if they don't call it just means I have time for other things.

Reply by Lisa Cirillo on 9/11/13 7:49am
Msg #484108

I also do not have to rely on this as my only income. I do, however, not want to work for nothing. I find that more and more of the "good" companies I have worked for are calling a week or more in advance, getting my "counter offer" and then not calling back. It seems that with the influx of new notaries, the offers to me are being cut because they know there is someone else out there that will work for much less.

I, for one, cannot and will not go out for $50 and $75 jobs. Travel, gas, wear and tear on the car, time out of the house, fax backs or not, going to the drop box, etc etc, just not worth $75.

Let's all hope that the newbies out there working for peanuts, grow up and get smart and refuse these low ball offers.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/11/13 8:57am
Msg #484112

Same boat as the two ahead of me - don't have to work but would like to work.

These companies are charging the same - let's just say for argument's sake their take is $1000.00. Their business has been reduced as well, so instead of $15,000 per week to cover their expenses and employees, now they are only generating $5,000. Rather than reducing my fee, as I am already suffering as they are with reduced quantities, they need to do as I have done, and reduce their expenses. That just may entail laying off a person or two. I don't see them doing this as readily as should be done; instead they want to ask the appraisers to be more forgiving of their fees and me/notaries as well.

We are all in trouble.....across the board. Solutions are not easily available at the one size fits all counter.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/11/13 1:58pm
Msg #484196

Exactly!

Our costs don't figure into the equation of our clients at all. What they're trying to calculate is how to increase their margin so that they can cover their overhead with a smaller volume of work. They're trying to stay in business, and how their financial decisions impact any given notary is completely irrelevant to them. I'm not saying that to criticize (although I think that approach reflects shortsightedness in their planning...), it's just the reality of how business works. Our profitability (or lack thereof) is not their concern, it's ours.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/11/13 8:36am
Msg #484110

Twice this week I have had signing services tell me

that I need to reduce my fee. One asked me to drive 50 miles RT for a Quicken loan o/n to borrower. She said they can only pay me $60 because business has been slow. (Like our cost of going business has been going donw?!) I gave my base fee of XXX. She then told me that in her system that my base fee is $75 and she will update my profile to XXX but I won't get much business from them anymore. (Guess I will lose my two per year). I told her that my fee was that twelve years ago and I raised my fee to $125 in 2004. I didn't start working for them until after 2004. I said I would take this one for $90 to help them out (which I normally don't do). She said, "well, I need to keep calling others until some will meet my fee, but will call you if I can't find anyone." I told her "Fine, but when you call me back, it will be $100". She said "I already found someone" and hung up on me. Too bad! Their fee on the HUD has always been at least $250.

Yesterday I had a ss call me for a closing 60 miles r/t. I told her $150. She said it is only a sellers package and they can only pay me $80. Too bad. My fee is my fee. I very nicely told her that I understand that if she needs to call someone else. She replied, thank you. Yesterday afternoon she asked if I were still available if they meet my fee of $150. I said yes. When I got the documents last night, the fee on the HUD in the name of the signing service was $300. Come on now!!!

Reply by jnew on 9/11/13 10:14am
Msg #484123

Re: Twice this week I have had signing services tell me

What they are really asking for is a bigger slice of the pie The closing fees are paid by the borrower to the title company. It is up to them what they want to do with it. Do they want a quality notary signing agent or not? If so, they must pay a fair fee to the notary signing agent. If not, they can hop on a jet and do it themselves. I don't accept any fee as standard not theirs and not mine. I negotiate every signing based on the amount of work and materials I have to provide which includes a fair amount of profit. They can put down any amount they want on their website, that does not mean I will automatically accept it.

Reply by CJ on 9/11/13 10:26am
Msg #484125

This happened last time.

Last time the business took a dive, people were laid off like crazy. I remember because many of them came here to say they used to be a [loan officer/ processor /title person], but since they are laid off, they want to become a notary, because they know we are making "tons" of money. Of course, we had no work either, but we don't count as "unemployed". Anyway, because title people and signing services still had a lot of overhead, and less work, many of them lowered their fees to us. But of course, our overhead has not gone down either, and we also don't have work. Everybody needs to pay bills, and no one has cash flow. My sister moved in with me and I gave her field inspector work. She is doing it full time, and she is barely making gas money and pocket change.