Posted by MW/VA on 9/7/13 7:20pm
Msg #483667

Virginia Title Producers Licenses. I got an email from a tc

I've been doing a lot of work for in the last few months, stating that they are requiring all notaries to get a VA TPL. I've always had my interpretation on this. The law states that notaries aren't allowed to "handle funds".
I called a gal at a local tc that I've done work for to get her take on this. She also said it doesn't apply to us. It requires 16 hrs. of classroom time, take the exam, be sponsored by a tc, get bonded etc.
So, the bottom line is that I'd need to invest a lot of time & about $1,000 in order to collect check that are in the tc's name.
Many of us have always stood on the fact that we think this is a misinterpretation about "handling funds". We aren't acting as settlement agents, depositing funds, disbursing funds, etc.
I've been in biz for almost 8 years, and this has come up from time to time. I do know of some notaries that ask for a separate shipping label & pkg. to have the borrowers send their checks separately so they aren't touching them.
I think the biggest issue is that we're not bonded in VA as notaries & cannot obtain a bond.
Sad part in all this is that I'm sure I will loose my best client.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/7/13 7:43pm
Msg #483669

I feel for you, Marilyn. Same with me: don't have funds to invest in TPL. One fellow nsa just did it and see how all of our business has dropped off? Just can't justify it.

So . . . if they won't call me because they can't be bothered to send a 2nd ship label, what can I do?

When I confirmed appt. with bo over phone for signing Thurs., I got a quick call from SS the next day that label would be included. Signer told me that when he mentioned to TC what I explained about funds, he was told, "they never heard of anything like that!!"

We don't "handle" funds in the true sense of the word, but who wants to risk her commission? They need to confront this issue and "get on the same page." Just telling us not to handle funds unless we are licensed is way too vague. I DOUBT VSB wants to give VA notaries that much leeway in interpreting the actual meaning behind this. Of course, the attorneys might think it "evil" that we're taking their jobs away and engineer a plot to put more restrictions on nsa work. Who knows?

http://www.vsb.org/site/regulation/upl-guidelines-for-real-estate-settlement-agents

Reply by MW/VA on 9/7/13 8:00pm
Msg #483670

Thanks for the support & the link, Michelle. I think

Part III spells it out clearly "receiving & disbursing funds".
The tc is the Settlement Agent. They're licensed to do business in VA. We don't do "closings" either, because it doesn't close until they do it.
We serve in a unique capacity, limited as it is. We are not on our own out there, doing signings illegally. We are always working under a tc.
It's so frustrating that this gets so misinterpreted.
Again, the gal I know from the tc said it's a huge investment of time & money.
She even said she allows some notaries to work under her co., but I don't think this particular co. is going to go for that. I am going to approach them about the 2 envelope approach. As it is, we don't often collect a ck. for funds due on the HUD.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/7/13 8:56pm
Msg #483675

The title company's position is illogical and ludicrous.

You are not receiving funds, anymore than the postman who delivers a check or the FedEx route man who picks up a package with a check. You cannot convert the funds to your use; checks are not made out to you. If you can't convert the funds to your use, you can't disburse the funds. You are a conduit of paper, not a repository of funds. Would the title company insist that the postman hold a TPL?

Reply by JamesLee/VA on 9/7/13 9:33pm
Msg #483676

Re: The title company's position is illogical and ludicrous.

Thank You Hugh for your interpretation. Its drives me nuts that some of these title companies can not discern the fact that putting a check made out to another party is cannot be interpreted as "handling funds" . Its mainly the out of state title companies that cant seem to grasp this concept.

I kind of chuckle at the end of the month what some of these companies are willing to waive because that cant find a CRESPA notary. To my understanding In order to even get your certification after you have taken the class and test, you have 6 months for a VA title underwriter to employ you. I'm not talking as a vendor either. Typically its as an actual settlement agent that prepares HUDS and disburses funds. I don't know of any signing agent that has a CRESPA now has at one time gotten theirs while employed by a TC.

Please if anyone knows any different..Let me know.

I have one TC that used to call me offering me only $125 and requiring me to have a CRESPA. So trust me, the money invested does not get you better compensation.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/8/13 10:29am
Msg #483685

Thanks, Hugh & Lee. Yes, that's exactly the deal. We

ARE NOT the settlement agent--period. I like Hugh's analogy of the postman. I'd also bet that every employee at the tc's aren't licensed or even bgc.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/8/13 10:36am
Msg #483687

For the most part the only notary that would be CRESPA

certified would be one that also works for a tc, and does signings on the side. Other than that, the majority of us out there aren't, because in reality we can't be. I also think that takes us out of the realm of "impartial third party".
I've been wondering if that has to do with the Dodd-Frank Act, and the push for everyone to be licensed. Problem is that notaries are commissioned, not licensed.
BTW, I have never had one situation where a check wasn't in the pkg. as it was supposed to be.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/8/13 6:38am
Msg #483680

It's a shame but title companies tend to interpret the law broadly. My suggestion would be call the office that issues TPL's tell them your dilemma see if someone (perhaps the legal dept) would give you a copy of the law and interpret it for you. It would be something to rebut the title companies interpretation. In Maryland then a new law goes into effect the title companies do the same thing and think we are going to jump thru more hoops. I call the commissioners office get the interpretation and send it to the legal dept of the title company. Don't take this laying down fight it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/8/13 8:03am
Msg #483681

Found this - maybe this will help?

From Stewart Title:

http://www.vuwriter.com/vubulletins.jsp?displaykey=BLVA000018

Everything else I found via a quick google search says that *anyone* conducting settlement or closing services in VA must be registered under CRESPA or RESA.

Reply by sueharke on 9/8/13 9:31am
Msg #483683

Re: Found this - maybe this will help?

In a prior career I worked temp jobs in x-ray technology. I was not bonded to handle money for any agency I worked for, nor did I have any other type of bond to handle money for client (this comes from my business degree background). In one job the company I worked for "insisted" I take money from the patient paying the bill. The client did not understand that my not be bonded was a legal issue. So, we found a way to compromise. If someone gave me money, I walked the patient to the front counter and had him or her pay directly. I think this is the same for any notaries who do not have the proper license to handle money from a client.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/8/13 10:51am
Msg #483689

Exactly, Sue. But there is still a great difference between

a bond & a TPL license. I think I'd actually be committing fraud with a TPL, since I will never work in that capacity.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/8/13 12:08pm
Msg #483695

Thanks, Linda. I get it, but even this looks to be that

tc's interpretation.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/8/13 9:56am
Msg #483684

First web notarizations; now this? They've gone nuts.

Think Sue has it right. Until somebody sues somebody and a precedent is set, if TCs want to interpret it as 'need CRESPA' (which seems to be impossible if an IC) but still want to work with NSAs in VA, they are going to have to provide another shipping label and the B is going to have to place check in it and off it goes--in the hands of multiple couriers. Of course, TC has to be on board with this interpretation. Ouch!

Sorta like the workaround I've seen many times in several states that allow grocery stores to sell liquor, but nobody under 'drinking age' could 'sell liquor', so the too-young cashier would have to call a supervisor to 'ring up the wine'.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/8/13 1:18pm
Msg #483697

All of my clients are now requiring that all funds be wired

to them now. Just started about Feb this year. Maybe the TPL requirement is the reason. I just send a copy of the wire transfers now.

Reply by Eve/VA on 9/9/13 9:37am
Msg #483715

Glad this is being discussed again ...

A TC wanted to hire me to do a lot of work in NOVA but then said they are only hiring NSAs with TPLs. I told her I thought that would be hard for her to come by in VA.

I'm thinking about it -- don't really have the money -- guess it would be a tax write off. Then, I would continue to work as a NSA as usual, not allowed to accept checks, until I get another offer from a TC to perhaps sign me up.

Does that make sense?

Reply by MW/VA on 9/9/13 10:19am
Msg #483722

The cost is about $2500, and you actually have to be

employed by a tc within 6 mos. of getting the license. That's the main reason this does not apply to us. That's a lot of money just to be able to accept a few checks.

Reply by Alice/MD on 9/9/13 12:01pm
Msg #483741

Re: The cost is about $2500, and you actually have to be

It has never made since to me here in Maryland... why we need a TPL. Not to mention that there is no enforcement of this law.

When I get a call to do a refi, from a Signing Service, I have been told that they are looking for" just a Notary". They do not know that it is a law and do now want to pay my fee because I have my TPL. The law changed to get Title companies to cover notaries but it does not work if you contract with a Signing Service.

In Maryland there is no enforcement of this law unless there is a problem.

Reply by Alice/MD on 9/9/13 1:20pm
Msg #483762

spelling correction

PLease over look the incorrect spellings in my above post.

Reply by Matt_VA on 9/9/13 10:24am
Msg #483724

All I know is if the governing body (who is that anyway?) wants notaries to have TPL for closings in VA, they are going to have to somehow drop the the TC sponsor part. If loans ever ramp up again, wouldn't ALL VA notaries have to be sponsored/hired by a VA TC? With all TCs in the country using VA notaries for VA closings there must be a huge number of notaries, right? The logistics just don't add up.

For my part, I have always made sure to insert the check and seal the envelope in front of the borrower and then insist that they take the tracking number. I have also always been concerned that this may come back on me someday. Scary! The only other logical way is for ALL funds to be wired. I would think that would be the domain of the Secy of the Commonwealth to insist on for our protection. I think we all know that isn't going to happen.

Reply by JandB on 9/9/13 11:35am
Msg #483733

The VA Commissioner of Insurance is the governing body.

I called and spoke to the RESPA dept when I moved to VA because of all of the above concerns. I was told the following:

Pursuant to our conversation of July 23, 2012, individuals acting in the capacity of a witness/notary closer are not required to be licensed as a title agent or registered as a Real Estate Settlement Agent as long as the only functions being performed are notary related. If a witness/notary closer handles funds there would be a requirement for licensure/registration. Also any discussion of title insurance and or the settlement documents may require licensure and registration. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

I never take responsibility for the funds. If you walk away from the table with the check, you have assumed responsibility for it. I get the 2nd label or wiring instructions or I don't do the closing. If questioned, I refer the TC to the RESPA dept of the Commissioner of Insurance. That usually does it the trick. I look at the check to be sure it is correct, attach it to a copy of the HUD, seal the 2nd package and tell the borrower where the nearest box is stressing the need to take care of it immediately. It really is not a problem.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/9/13 11:52am
Msg #483737

Calling ATTENTION to above post. Looks like problem solved. n/m

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/9/13 12:20pm
Msg #483746

Re: The VA Commissioner of Insurance is the governing body.

<<"If you walk away from the table with the check, you have assumed responsibility for it. . . I look at the check to be sure it is correct, attach it to a copy of the HUD, seal the 2nd package and tell the borrower where the nearest box is stressing the need to take care of it immediately">>

I do all the above - except attaching to HUD - because I have them write the file no. on the check. I try to get them to make a copy of the check (for my package). I make sure they have the tracking no. on the 2nd label and/or I offer to track for them - sending them the update via email.

This is how newer nsa's were trained, since we were told upfront that non-RESA agents could not take responsibility for any "Funds Due" or risk our commissions.

The problem is that this does not sit well with some clients. Also, many VA notaries (not RESA licensed) DO accept funds - which put others of us at odds with some firms. They think we just made up the rules.

Reply by Eve/VA on 9/9/13 12:39pm
Msg #483749

Thankfully, I'm encountering more wires n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/9/13 2:05pm
Msg #483773

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I used to handle checks

that way & will go back to it.
This would all go away if they found a way to license notaries & require a bond. As it is, they have it all tied into CRESPA.

Reply by Dave Heine on 9/9/13 9:50pm
Msg #483861

Re: The VA Commissioner of Insurance is the governing body.

the key to VA TPL is not merely the fact of handling funds. Per the email above,

Also any discussion of title insurance and or the settlement documents may require licensure and registration

If you read the CRESPA FAQ, it say if you preside at the closing conference. What I am reading from the Department above is if all you are doing is GNW and not discusiing any aspect of the loan or loan docs, then your correct, you do not need the TPL, however, they say if you discuss title insurance OR SETTLEMENT DOCS that you may... sounds a little more open ended.

From the Virginia State Bar, if you are conducting the closing, which if you are handling the loan documents and sitting down with the customer, that IS there closing then CRESPA applies. It is not all just about handling money.

http://www.vsb.org/site/regulation/resa-overview

UPL Op.#183 was approved by the Virginia Supreme Court on September 25, 1998, but the opinion was revised to explicitly recognize the right of lay settlement agents, as authorized under the Act, to close residential real estate transactions. Thereafter, the General Assembly acted again in this area by enacting the Real Estate Settlement Agent Registration Act (Va. Code §§6.1-2.30, et seq.) which became effective July 1, 1999. This new act states that if a non-lawyer is properly registered as a real estate settlement agent, he or she may perform escrow, closing and settlement services for any real estate located in the Commonwealth. Thus, properly registered lay settlement agents may now handle commercial as well as residential closings. Attorneys, however, are not required to meet The Act's requirements in order to close commercial real estate transactions.

Reply by LKAmikeVa on 9/10/13 9:17am
Msg #483922

Re: The VA Commissioner of Insurance is the governing body.

The one problem I have is it states Settlement Agent. We are not settlement agents in any way. We are signing agents. Our primary goal is to verify the identification of the borrowers. We are not allowed or supposed to make any judgements about the loan. When we notarize the documents in a package we are notarizing that the person in front of us is who they are suppose to be. I always hand an envelope to the borrower which is labeled as FUNDS. They insert the check and then I attach it to the HUD. I've never heard of this two package deal. Like others, I've always just considered myself a courier after they drop it in the package.

This is all moot since I haven't had a call in a month for closing here in rural central Va. Went from crazy busy to deadsville.

Reply by SharonMN on 9/9/13 4:14pm
Msg #483795

I think if NSAs "handle funds" then so does FedEx and UPS, and legal couriers. Nobody's asking them to get a TPL.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/10/13 1:53pm
Msg #483996

Hugh made that point also. However, those people are

getting a sealed pkg. & have no role in the contents of that pkg.