Posted by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 1:06pm
Msg #483305

When Title Says 'Yes'

My fellow VA notaries: When TC confirms ok to proceed with signing regardless of nb spouse requirements, which "leg" do you stand on? I simply don't understand why VA marital rights are not UNdisputed - unless perhaps 'community prop' does not garner the same attention.

TC says sign, but notary knows better (or does she)?

Refi signing and trouble brewing between signer and spouse. Spouse not shown on TIL or Mtg, RTC, etc.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/5/13 1:22pm
Msg #483306

Who's paying you? Is the title company writing you a check, or are you writing one to yourself?

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 1:37pm
Msg #483308

Is TC writing you a check?

When you put it that way . . .

Reply by JPH13/MO on 9/5/13 1:44pm
Msg #483309

If spouse not on mortgage it may be a redraw....

but if you have warned them and they said to go ahead, I would go ahead.

Reply by Deborah Breedlove on 9/5/13 5:22pm
Msg #483343

Get it in writing n/m

Reply by Frank/NC on 9/5/13 1:46pm
Msg #483310

There may be a time when the spouse has legally relinquished their rights at which time a Deed is filed in the Register of Deeds Office to that effect. If that property is refinabced, the NBS does not have to sign any documents at all. The Title company will see the Deed filed when they do the search and the spouse signs nothing whether or not it is a community property state.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 9/5/13 2:26pm
Msg #483314

IME, Frank/NC is correct.

I've had several refi's where NBS had previously signed off of property either at purchase or at some refi. Any refinances thereafter NBS does not have to sign. CA is a community property state.

Reply by Notarysigner on 9/5/13 3:00pm
Msg #483322

Re: IME, Frank/NC is correct. Ditto

I questioned this, so I wouldn't get into the 'ol spousal Grant deed quagmire. If the loan is being refi WITH THE SAME LENDER, they already have the required Doc. I remember once I post that I told the borrower if there was no SGD the loan may not go thru.....boy did my fellow NR's rip me for UPL..Y'LL remember?

Reply by ToniK on 9/5/13 1:48pm
Msg #483312

Personal experience here

My husband purchased his condo. He is on mortgage and title. DOT states he is a married man. I signed NOT ONE document. I was at closing but it was all him. Im no expert but if TC dont care...nor do I.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/5/13 2:30pm
Msg #483315

Agree with Toni

In VA a married person can own property as sole owner and if spouse is not on title then spouse does not sign anything.

Reply by Les_CO on 9/5/13 3:16pm
Msg #483325

Re: Agree with Toni

It is said that the lawyer that represents himself has a fool for a client, it has been said that a notary that gives legal advice is also unwise, it has been said that a notary that ‘silently’ gives themselves legal advice, should at least know the law first.( http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+20-107.3)

Reply by ToniK on 9/5/13 3:42pm
Msg #483333

Re: Agree with Toni

This link has nothing to do with VA Settlement laws...this is how the court determines property in a marriage if the parties are going to divorce...NICE!!!!

But if I wanted to go wrangle up my VA Title Agent "bible" and skim through to find the answer...I could BUT I dont want to....

Point is....TC problem..not a notary or Signing Agent problem.

Just to make this point stick...First sentence in the paragraph "Upon decreeing the dissolution of a marriage, and also upon decreeing a divorce from the bond of matrimony, or upon the filing with the court as provided in subsection J of a certified copy of a final divorce decree obtained without the Commonwealth, the court, upon request of either party.....

Reply by Les_CO on 9/5/13 4:34pm
Msg #483341

Re: Agree with Toni

I don’t want to go into Virginia State statutes, or if it’s a community property, spousal, homestead or separate property State, my point was we as notaries….MYSELF included, shouldn’t give legal advice even to ourselves if we don’t know the law.

Reply by anotaryinva on 9/5/13 6:22pm
Msg #483348

I agree with Les

We are notaries. We are hired to notarize signatures.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 9:55pm
Msg #483380

Re: Agree with Toni

<<"But if I wanted to go wrangle up my VA Title Agent "bible" and skim through to find the answer...I could BUT I dont want to.... Point is....TC problem..not a notary or Signing Agent problem. ">>

Testy, indeed

(I also agree about those statutes are not pertaining to settlement specifically; that Information System is helpful - until it's not. But I appreciate the diligence, Les/co anyhow)

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 10:23pm
Msg #483384

Re: Agree with Toni

<<"In VA a married person can own property as sole owner and if spouse is not on title then spouse does not sign anything.">>

Are you saying there is no redraw in *any* such instance?

Reply by MW/VA on 9/5/13 3:32pm
Msg #483329

Not our advice to give. It's the tc's job to know VA law,

not ours. I'm not dodging responsibility here, just pointing out that I wouldn't engage in UPL. As I understand it, unless the property is titled as "sole & separate property" it would be considered marital property, even if the spouse ins't on title. VA is a "spousal rights" state, not a "community property" state.
Again, we don't know all the circumstances/situations involved in the loan. While I respect "due diligence", I wouldn't insist that a NBS situation exists.
Thanks to Les for citing the actual law.

Reply by anotaryinva on 9/5/13 3:58pm
Msg #483337

Re: Not our advice to give. It's the tc's job to know VA law,

I've had it go both ways, absent spouses who were not on the DOT and the TC insisted they sign and spouses ready to sign when none were required. I notarize the signature(s) of those I've been requested to.

Found this online, I know Paw had a list but I couldn't find it.

http://www.nationstarbroker.com/documents/NSM_MaritalSignatoryTable.pdf

See the VA footnote #15

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 9:41pm
Msg #483378

Re: Not our advice to give. It's the tc's job to know VA law,

thanks for the reference . . . particular note taken of (footnote): "Some title companies will require both spouses to sign the security instruments because a spouse has the option to take a statutory interest in the property of the deceased spouse in lieu of taking under the decedent’s will."

Signer is a police officer and disclosed to me by phone that he and wife not friendly, whatever. If he dies (hope not) in line of duty . . .

anyway, I Do Not consider it upl to ask certain questions and confirm with SS when this type of thing comes up. Too many instances where redraws are needed; like someone said, "get it in writing."

In fact, I'm too tired to think clearly, but I believe I signed for same L.O. last month with same exact spouse issue (except I believe nbs WAS on docs - just not around)

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/6/13 5:28am
Msg #483393

Re: Not our advice to give. It's the tc's job to know VA law,

I, too have seen both ways - and arbitrary or not, it is not going to be fixed on my dime!

"You want me to go back? Your wish is my command!"

I can play as dumb as the next nsa; only please don't assume ignorance won't cost . . . somebody (else)

Reply by desktopfull on 9/5/13 3:54pm
Msg #483336

Florida is a spousal state. In Florida, (an attorney explained to me) the spouse only signs when the property is the personal residence or if they are on title to an investment property. If this is an investment property in only one name, only the person on title usually signs. There won't be a RTC on investment properties either. From reading the law Les posted it sounds like VA is the same. Not giving legal advice.

Reply by jojo_MN on 9/5/13 8:36pm
Msg #483371

I am not from VA; however, you need to know how the law is stated in the state in which the property is located. In MN, WI and IA, the spouse needs to sign if it is a primary property regardless if they are on title or not AND regardless if it is a purchase or refinance. If I were you, I would ask the title company how the law reads in that location.

I have had instances where title companies did not know the law in the states in which I work. I was told not to add the spouses name even after I asked, and were not going to have corrected documents sent to me because the non-borrowing spouse "didn't need to sign". Guess what, I got paid for a second trip for the re-do both times.

Reply by NVLSlady/VA on 9/5/13 9:50pm
Msg #483379

<"I have had instances where title companies did not know the law in the states in which I work. I was told not to add the spouses name even after I asked, and were not going to have corrected documents sent to me because the non-borrowing spouse "didn't need to sign". Guess what, I got paid for a second trip for the re-do both times.">

Exactly! The SS acted like I was asking the question for the "fun of it." When borrower is married and real property is involved (yes, it is primary) in a spousal rights state, we HAVE to ask.

In fact, their closing instructions state: If there is a NON-borrowing spouse, and you are in a marital state, then they must sign the Mtg and its riders, the TIL and Itemization of Amt Financed, and the RTC, EVEN IF THEIR NAME DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE DOCS (bolded by me for emphasis).

How I interpret that is: We want YOU to know and if you don't catch it, it's on You, not us. I know perfectly well, that I am just being hired to witness the signatures; but we ALL know that's not only what our jobs entail (else they could find a "monkey" to do it).