Posted by Woody Williams on 6/27/11 2:43pm
Msg #387875

Email received from a lowball SS

"This email is intended to make you aware that for all loan signings for Bank of America ONLY.

An all-purpose acknowledgment page is NOT to be completed and attached to the mortgage. The only acknowledgement that should be used is the one included in the loan package. Going forward, please do not use an all-purpose acknowledgement for Bank of America loans."

I follow the laws of my state.

Any comments?

Reply by Alz on 6/27/11 2:45pm
Msg #387877

Follow the laws of your state n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/27/11 2:52pm
Msg #387878

Maybe they are asking that you not add a loose acknowledgement as that will change the recording fees.

I would respond back that I will not attach an acknowledgement to the document but must modify any non-compliant working on the pre-printed acknowledgement to conform with my state's notary statutes.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/27/11 3:34pm
Msg #387896

They cannot tell you what wording to use... if they want it done right, they need to put the proper wording in there first.

Reply by Mark/SanJose on 6/27/11 5:57pm
Msg #387936

BofA's acknowledgments are typically correct for the state the property is in. This was a broadcast email, I received it also. I have heard that some lesser experienced notaries will add a loose acknowledgment when the supplied acknowledgment does not match the requirements of the state the notary is in. This is not good if the property is not in the same state. The acknowledgment should meet the requirements of the state the property is in and will be recorded, not the state the signing is at. Of course, it is not our job to know what each state needs, it IS their job. So, if it is out of state use what they supply.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/27/11 6:05pm
Msg #387937

Re: Email received from a lowball SS....Wrong...

"The acknowledgment should meet the requirements of the state the property is in and will be recorded, not the state the signing is at"

Absolutely not....the notarial certs must conform to the laws of the state where the notarization takes place - not where property is located....a notary CAN use the certificates provided for out of state properties providing they meet the criteria for their own state.


Notary 101..

Reply by Mark/SanJose on 6/27/11 6:21pm
Msg #387940

Not Wrong

County Recorders in California will only accept acknowledgments that conform with the California format. They will not accept a Nevada format acknowledgment. You need to study more.

Page 11, paragraph 4 of the CA Sec. of State Notary Handbook "A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that state or jurisdiction, provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law."

If you look carefully you will find similar rules in the handbook of your state also.

If a Florida acknowledgment does not conform to CA law you will have a "do over".

This is why BofA wants to choose the acknowledgment format.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/27/11 6:36pm
Msg #387941

Re: Not Wrong...I disagree

All states recognize notarial certificates drawn and executed in other states. A notary must follow the requirements set out in their own state laws.

I've done FL acks for CA property and CA companies - no do-overs. I can use FL acks or out-of-state acks providing those out-of-state acks contain the elements required by Florida law. I am bound by Florida law, not California law or the laws of any other state.

If that CA recorder is rejecting documents for recordings notarized in another state then, IMO, that recorder is wrong.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/27/11 6:55pm
Msg #387950

Re: Not Wrong...I disagree

I agree with Linda - I have stamped Virginia-compliant wording onto a California DOT. The TC then gets upset because they say it won't record and they want me to complete and send a loose CA ack, however when I call the recorder's office in CA they say yes they will accept my Virginia certificate.

There seems to be a big misconception in the CA title industry that only CA acks will be accepted for recording on notarizations completed out of state. The CA ack contains elements that VA does not require in it's acks, and as a VA notary I will not certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of CA.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/27/11 7:40pm
Msg #387953

Nope, you *are* wrong Mark....

"County Recorders in California will only accept acknowledgments that conform with the California format"

That's soooo not true! California must accept out of state notarizations. If they are being rejected, they are doing so improperly.

CA notaries can use an out of state wording IF the wording is REQUIRED for recording in that state. That's the key... REQUIRED. Guess what? There is NO state that actually requires certain wording on acknowledgements for recording purposes. Every state in the country will recognize an out-of-state notarization, provided it is done according to law where the notarization took place.

BofA just doesn't want notaries adding loose forms... and many of them do so improperly.

Reply by Mark/SanJose on 6/27/11 9:00pm
Msg #387961

Re: Not Wrong

I have seen notary blocks from other states that are exactly the same as California's wording and in that case there would certainly be no problem.

I am holding a memo from the Santa Clara County (CA) Recorders Office emphasizing that only acknowledgments with the exact California wording will be accepted and I have seen them reject non-conforming documents. This memo only reiterates items on page 11 per my previous post (and CA Civil Code 1180.1.a).

Each State has the right to regulate their own notary process. Some may be more flexible in accepting out of state terminology than others.

Since CA law specifically allows us to use out-of-state acknowledgments for out-of-state properties I do so (pg 11, & CA Civil Code 1180.2.c). I do not want to keep track of which states are as picky as California. So, I conform with CA law and keep it simple for the destination county recorder.

I do not make the law, but I have read it and I follow it.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/27/11 9:34pm
Msg #387968

No Mark, you are not wrong.

As long as you are in CA you must do what you are to do according to CA law. When (or if) you move to FL you must do as we do in Florida, which is not as lengthy. Then, you can send your FL certificates to CA and they will be recorded.

It has something to do with interstate commerce - Susan Fischer has talked about this in the past so if you hit the orange search button and search for Susan Fischer as author and interstate commerce as keywords you will find the proper message. States will accept each others stuff as long as it conforms to the laws of the other states.

You do not have to know FL law until you move here, just as I do not have to know CA notary law until I move there. It is good, in my opinion, that you are so diligent in this matter for it is the details that make all the difference in the world. Just keep on doing what you are doing.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/28/11 3:20pm
Msg #388062

Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution

is what you're referring to - all states are required to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings" of other states (Article IV, Section I).

Reply by James Powell on 6/28/11 7:35am
Msg #387994

Re: Not Wrong

"I am holding a memo from the Santa Clara County (CA) Recorders Office emphasizing that only acknowledgments with the exact California wording will be accepted and I have seen them reject non-conforming documents."

Then you should point out to the Santa Clara Recorders Office that they are in violation of California Civil Code 1189.

1189(a) (1) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken WITHIN THIS STATE shall be in the following form:

1189(a) (2) (b) Any certificate of acknowledgment taken IN ANOTHER PLACE shall be sufficient in this state if it is taken in accordance with the laws of the place where the acknowledgment is made.

1189 (a) (2) (c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary public may complete any acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.

http://law.onecle.com/california/civil/1189.html

Reply by Mark/SanJose on 6/28/11 10:49am
Msg #388021

Re: Not Wrong

The recorder's office is not far. I will take a few different states ACKs and pose the question of out of state notarizations of CA properties using these ACKs and see what they say. Then show them the code, if they reject them and see how they respond. It may take a few days.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/11 11:14am
Msg #388025

Make sure you make it clear to them that the

notarizations are taking place in the *other* states, not in CA...as opposed to docs drawn outside the state with non-compliant certs but notarized within the state.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/28/11 11:14am
Msg #388027

Ugh..too quick...I'm curious to hear their response. n/m

Reply by SouthernOK on 6/27/11 6:10pm
Msg #387938

You learn something new everyday on NotRot

Having not done an out of state property signing I wasn't aware of this fact.

I was under the belief that the acknowledgement should have the proper wording for the state in which you stand while performing the notarization. It seems others are using the same thinking.

As an OK notary I know what must appear here in OK, but wouldn't know what should/must be used for a CA document.

Are we required to know the handbooks from each state? (Flamesuit on.)

Reply by jba/fl on 6/27/11 6:39pm
Msg #387942

Re: You learn something new everyday on NotRot

False - back to where your thinking was originally. Your second paragraph is correct - where you are standing is the venue. It is also the laws of that venue that prevail.

So, if you are in Rome, you do as the Romans do. OK is your set of laws; Florida is mine. CA can do their own thing.

Reply by Carol Graff on 6/27/11 6:41pm
Msg #387943

Re: You learn something new everyday on NotRot

Well, I just att'd my ack for a BofA loan and a Wells Fargo today. Curious if I'll get an email like that too.