Posted by Don Courtney on 6/23/11 6:12pm
Msg #387457
Notary Embossment request
I had an interesting call today from a company in California that is working on opening a business location in China. The Chinese government is requiring that all 87 pages of their corporate financial statements be embossed by a Notary. Only the final page calls for signatures of the Corporate Officers. The caller was pretty excited just to find a Notary that owned an embosser and it sounded like price was not much of a concern for them.
I searched the California notary Handbook but found very limited references to embossments. What I did find seemed to indicate that use of an embosser carries the same requirements as our rubber stamp seals. I turned this job down as I did not feel that embossing every page falls within state guidelines. I was also concerned about what exactly my embossment of each page would mean....i.e. that I was possibly adding an official approval as to the contents of each page? I must admit that fleeting thoughts of 87 pages x $10 per page sounded pretty good. Since the document was headed for China, how could that come back to bite me?
Is there anyone out there with experience in this type of scenario?
| Reply by dickb/wi on 6/23/11 6:19pm
Msg #387461
i would have asked them to find out if their legal beagles were ok with them signing each page and if so do they want an ack or a jurat, and have at it....jmho
| Reply by LKT/CA on 6/23/11 10:21pm
Msg #387501
<<<I must admit that fleeting thoughts of 87 pages x $10 per page sounded pretty good.>>>
Where'd you get that you can charge them $10 per page for embossing 87 pages? Embossing the pages is NOT notarizing them. ONLY when you notarize a signature with an attached acknowledgment or jurat can you charge $10. The inked seal is what finalizes the notarized signature, NOT the embossed impression. At this point in time, embossing a page is only good for "looks".
I do own an embosser and use it with a gold foil seal mostly for documents leaving the country or if a client has handwritten or typed their own document.
| Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/23/11 11:49pm
Msg #387511
Documents in CA do not require an embosser. I carry an embosser, just as Lisa does, for documents that are going to be sent out of the United States.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/24/11 12:19pm
Msg #387554
BUT... an embosser in CA *IS* a legal notarial seal
Just because most have switched to the stamp, doesn't mean that the embosser, when darkened to make it capable of photographic reproduction, doesn't carry the same legal weight. Clearly stated in the handbook.
I agree, that the embosser - as a legal, official seal - can not be used on every page in California, because the notary's official seal can only be used in correlation with a notarial act.
In Florida, the embosser is NOT the official seal, so we could, in theory, emboss every page - although I am not comfortable doing it.
JMHO
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/24/11 12:52pm
Msg #387565
Re: BUT... an embosser in CA *IS* a legal notarial seal
If I'm reading it correctly, CA notaries MUST use the rubber seal - the embosser is in addition to..the way I read it the embosser does not stand alone.
"Because of the legal requirement that the seal be photographically reproducible, the rubber
stamp seal is almost universal. However, notaries public may use an embosser seal in addition
to the rubber stamp. The legal requirements for a seal are shown below. (Government Code
section 8207)"
| Reply by janCA on 6/24/11 7:15pm
Msg #387609
You are correct, Linda. Rubber stamp HAS to be used. n/m
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/24/11 8:57pm
Msg #387623
No, actually, you are both incorrect
California Government Code § 8207:
A notary public shall provide and keep an official seal, which shall clearly show, when ***embossed***, stamped, ***impressed*** or affixed to a document, the name of the notary, the State Seal, the words “Notary Public,” and the name of the county wherein the bond and oath of office are filed, and the date the notary public’s commission expires. The seal of every notary public commissioned on or after January 1, 1992, shall contain the sequential identification number assigned to the notary and the sequential identification number assigned to the manufacturer or vendor. The notary public shall authenticate with the official seal all official acts.
A notary public shall not use the official notarial seal except for the purpose of carrying out the duties and responsibilities as set forth in this chapter. A notary public shall not use the title “notary public” except for the purpose of rendering notarial service.
The seal of every notary public shall be ***affixed by a seal press*** or stamp that will print or emboss a seal which legibly reproduces under photographic methods the required elements of the seal. The seal may be circular not over two inches in diameter, or may be a rectangular form of not more than one inch in width by two and one-half inches in length, with a serrated or milled edged border, and shall contain the information required by this section.
The seal shall be kept in a locked and secured area, under the direct and exclusive control of the notary. Failure to secure the seal shall be cause for the Secretary of State to take administrative action against the commission held by the notary public pursuant to Section 8214.1.
The official seal of a notary public is the exclusive property of that notary public, and shall not be surrendered to an employer upon the termination of employment, whether or not the employer paid for the seal, or to any other person. The notary, or his or her representative, shall destroy or deface the seal upon termination, resignation, or revocation of the notary’s commission. This section shall become operative on January 1, 1992.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/24/11 9:02pm
Msg #387625
Re: No, actually, you are both incorrect
"This section shall become operative on January 1, 1992."
My quote is from the 2011 handbook...
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/24/11 9:07pm
Msg #387626
So is mine. Bottom of pg. 30. Direct quote from current laws n/m
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/24/11 10:05pm
Msg #387629
Re: So is mine. Bottom of pg. 30. Direct quote from current laws
Sort of ambiguous....
The current handbook does state:
"Because of the legal requirement that the seal be photographically reproducible, the rubber
stamp seal is almost universal. However, notaries public may use an embosser seal in addition
to the rubber stamp"
So the handbook is saying they may use an embosser in addition to the rubber stamp. Yet the
Government code 8207 does state:
"The seal of every notary public shall be affixed by a seal press or stamp that will print or
emboss a seal which legibly reproduces under photographic methods the required elements"
| Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 6/24/11 6:50am
Msg #387521
In my opinion, the embosser might be as good as a rubber seal if the notary rubbed a pencil over it. Indeed, in some states it is required for recording.
You might check with the SOS. Sometimes, those unspoken words could get a notary in hot water.
| Reply by Les_CO on 6/24/11 9:46am
Msg #387528
Maybe you should get a chop?
I would suggest that at least have one the officers (CFO) sign each page (to indicate original/no changes) then go ahead and notarize/seal each page
JMO
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/24/11 5:41pm
Msg #387598
Embossing every page of a multipage document will only prove that the page was there when the notarization was done. If someone tries to insert a page, it will be obvious (not so obvious if someone tries to remove a page unless the pages are numbered, but that's not your problem).
As far as it coming back to bite you is concerned - nothing you do (including notarizing the signatures) has any legal effect on the document itself. Your job is to verify that the person who signed is who he or she claims to be; the contents of the document aren't your concern (with the possible exception of ensuring that there are no blank lines within the document, and even THAT varies by state). Your acts as a notary are governed by the state in which you are commissioned, so as long as you are following state regulations you've got your bases covered.
And no, you probably aren't entitled to $10/page just for embossing - most states set the fee per signature or page notarized, and embossing is not the same as notarizing.
| Reply by ikando on 6/24/11 10:41pm
Msg #387641
Re: Notary Embossment request n/m
| Reply by ikando on 6/24/11 10:42pm
Msg #387642
Is the OP sure the new business was asked by the China contact to have a "notary" emboss each page? Could China perhaps have been expecting the "corporate seal" of the company be embossed on each page?
Just another viewpoint.
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