Posted by CH2inCA on 6/3/11 1:37pm
Msg #385080

Notary role in obtaining an Apostille?

I've read, and read, and read here and on the SOS website. But except for acting as a courier, what would be the role of a notary in obtaining an Apostille for a high school diploma?

I've read about notarizing a 'document custodian' form; but I'm just not connecting the dots.
I'm thinking the client can just send their diploma to the SOS and bypass the notary altogether...

What am I missing?

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/3/11 1:49pm
Msg #385081

You are providing a service to the client

Saving them the time and effort of getting it done themselves.

Nothing wrong with that!

My .02

Reply by CH2inCA on 6/3/11 2:30pm
Msg #385087

Re: You are providing a service to the client

I agree, nothing wrong in that.

Just want to be sure I'm not missing something! :0)

Reply by PAW on 6/3/11 2:42pm
Msg #385089

Re: You are providing a service to the client

Typically, diplomas are not notarized nor signed by a 'state official', so simply sending a diploma to the SOS for an apostille will often result in frustration when the document is returned, sans apostille.

What needs to be done is the diploma needs to be notarized. States that allow a notary to make attested or certified copies do this all the time. The diploma is copied and a statement by the notary is affixed to the diploma and that's what is sent off to the SOS. California presents some difficulty because the CA notary cannot make the certified copy.

The following is an excerpt from the CA SOS website (http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/authentication.htm):

----------
The California Secretary of State authenticates signatures only on documents issued in the State of California signed by a notary public or the following public officials and their deputies:

- - County Clerks or Recorders
- - Court Administrators of the Superior Court
- - Executive Clerks of the Superior Court
- - Officers whose authority is not limited to any particular county
- - Executive Officers of the Superior Court
- - Judges of the Superior Court
- - State Officials
----------

Since FL (where I am) allows us to make an attested copy, we don't have to worry about whether or not the "Certification by Document Custodian" will be accepted or not.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/3/11 3:12pm
Msg #385093

In CA? None at all...

Getting an apostille has nothing to do with the Notary per se. Quite a few of us will offer this as an additional service, but it has nothing to do with Notary work. It's basically a courier job that takes a lot of time... and effort if done in person.

Notaries in CA cannot certify copies of diplomas. The certification should come from the educational institution, which can *then* be notarized.

For example, the college registrar could write a letter on institution letterhead with some kid of statement about the authenticity of a diploma or verification of graduation. That person then has the document notarized. If the receiving country will accept a copy cert by custodian, that's great... but that's not for us, as notaries, to decide.

If it needs to have an apostille... somebody (doesn't matter who) would need to take that notarized document to the CA SOS for authentication of the notary's signature. That's the apostille. In CA, this authentication can be done in two ways:

1) Directly at the Sacramento SOS office, where they have the notary's original signature on file. They will issue the apostille right there. You can do it in person or mail it in.

2) A two-step process wherein the notarized document is taken the the county clerk where the notary's oath/bond are on file. The clerk with authenticate the notary's signature. The notarized document and county clerk authentication are then taken to the SOS office (or the regional office in Los Angeles) where the county clerk's signature is authenticated and an apostille is issued.

It's important to remember that an apostille is like an upper level notarization -- they're just verifying that the notary (or clerk) signature is authentic. They aren't validating the original document in any way.

I've done this several times for people who were in a big hurry. It's not a cheap service. Getting a same day apostille in the LA area is a ridiculously long process. It involves having to go to the central clerk's office in Norwalk (if the notary's oath/bond are LA County), which is a nightmare of it's own. Then you have to travel to downtown LA (a couple blocks from Pershing Square) to the SOS regional office and wait in line there. It's even worse if the notary's signature needs to be authenticated in another county. It's an all-day (or several day) process.

If you have the time, your best bet to to just mail it to the SOS office in Sacramento. Instructions are at:

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/authentication.htm

NOw, you have to be sure that the country of destination is one that will even accept the apostille. If not... then you're looking at dealing with the federal gov't too... and that's an even longer process.

This PDF file does a good job of explaining everything:

See: http://www.hcch.net/upload/abc12e.pdf

Reply by rengel/CA on 6/3/11 7:10pm
Msg #385125

Marian - Thank You

for posting that booklet! It's great. Really appreciate your sharing.

My .02

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 6/3/11 6:30pm
Msg #385123

None, really. But, according to the Hague Convention

Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents - the actual "treaty" that created the apostille - does specifically allow for the notary to obtain the apostille.

Citations:

CONVENTION ABOLISHING THE REQUIREMENT OF
LEGALISATION FOR FOREIGN PUBLIC DOCUMENTS
(Concluded 5 October 1961)
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=41

Article 1
[...] For the purposes of the present Convention, the following are deemed to be public documents:
c) notarial acts;
d) [...] notarial authentications of signatures. [Although we, in Florida at least, don't really "authenticate signatures" as do notaries in civil law countries]

Article 5
The certificate [i.e. the apostille] shall be issued at the request of the person who has signed the document [i.e. the notary - the one whose signature is being authenticated by the apostille] or of any bearer.
When properly filled in, it will certify the authenticity of the signature, the capacity in which the person signing the document has acted and, where appropriate, the identity of the seal or stamp which the document bears. [...]